Author Topic: Sizing die question  (Read 261 times)

Texashogman

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Sizing die question
« on: August 15, 2017, 05:51:22 PM »
So I just got the Lee "bulge buster " set up with the fcd for 40/10mm
When I use it, it sizes the outside of the case to .422" ---BUT my hornady die sizes the same cases to .417" at the mouth with a slight taper to .420-.421" at the base

Is the hornady sizing the brass too much? Or the Lee sizing too little? Or am I using the Lee die wrong?

The directions for the Lee bulge buster say you can run a loaded round through it too--- not sure about that as I tried to do that with a loaded 200wfn case and it darn near stuck the whole thing in the die, couldn't get the bullet part through the die with normal sizing pressure and was he11 getting it back out the bottom of the die.

Help? I have never used the "bulge buster" before,  probably don't really need it for my own brass but maybe if I get any brass from someone else's gun.

RIA 52000, PVL chest holster, Montana 200WFN

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The_Shadow

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Re: Sizing die question
« Reply #1 on: August 15, 2017, 07:01:51 PM »
OK first things first, when using the Bulge Buster (LEE FCD with guts removed) it needs to be very high in your press to take full advantage of the top of the press stroke for maximum leverage...  ::)

Ye the FCD should pass a loaded cartridge as the carbide ring is all that touches the casing...however I have found that with cast bullets the squeeze can apply enough pressure and leave the bullet sized smaller and even loose inside the casing.  :o

Now Hornady dies have been know to be tight, even too tight with respect to resizing.  Some sets actually have marred the brass to the point it started rolling a ridge near the base of the casing...This can be eliminated by raising the sizing die up a little.  The tapered inside can be lessened by raising the die up some to where it is not in contact with a shell holder.   ???

The Bulge buster will iron out the brass and because it is carbide it is smoother for the process and yes it will size to 0.4220" - 0.4225".  This size will fit a 10mm cartridge case gauge.   8)  Then normal resizing and depriming  is done to reduce the neck even smaller and make it round.  The neck expander will open the case neck and flare the casing just enough for the bullet base to start inside, but it should also be tight enough to hold the bullet when seated properly.  If the expander doesn't open the neck enough, the bullet will push the casing open or in some instances wrinkle under the seated pressure.  This is where a good long expander plug can make a difference for bullets to enter inside straight and smooth...
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Texashogman

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Re: Sizing die question
« Reply #2 on: August 15, 2017, 07:52:55 PM »
K, so the issue with the loaded round would be the .402" cast bullet , I followed the directions and my press was at the top of the stroke

The 40/10 hornady dies are the ti-nitride dies, bought them maybe 10 years ago for my 40 cal and have never noticed any issues with them untill now that I compare them to the Lee.

So the bulge buster isn't really a sizing die per say then? Its just for ironing out any base bulge? For Some reason I was under the impression it could be used instead of a regular fl size die, then use the expander/flare die, then seat die, then crimp die.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2017, 08:28:50 PM by Texashogman »
RIA 52000, PVL chest holster, Montana 200WFN

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sqlbullet

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Re: Sizing die question
« Reply #3 on: August 16, 2017, 07:05:07 AM »
Spec is .423" at the mouth, .425" at the base.  Not sure the tolerance...the PDF is loading.  I would guess +0.000"/- 0.003"  That would mean that the bulge buster sizing at .422" along the entire length is within spec.

A FCD is contra-indicated as a crimp or after loading size die when using cast bullets due to the potential to swage the bullet to a smaller than intended diameter.

Texashogman

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Re: Sizing die question
« Reply #4 on: August 16, 2017, 12:45:42 PM »
Spec is .423" at the mouth, .425" at the base.  Not sure the tolerance...the PDF is loading.  I would guess +0.000"/- 0.003"  That would mean that the bulge buster sizing at .422" along the entire length is within spec.

A FCD is contra-indicated as a crimp or after loading size die when using cast bullets due to the potential to swage the bullet to a smaller than intended diameter.
K, grabbed the saami chamber/cartridge drawing off line and max is .425/.423, and allowable variance is -.005" so minimum would be .420/.418"

the actual chamber specs are .424" at the mouth, and .428" at the base with an allowance of +.004" variance so min/max for the base would be .428/.432" and the mouth is .424/.428" If I'm reading the specs correctly

looks like the hornady die sizes on the minimum and the lee FCD sizes closer to middle/max size

so in theory if I wanted to work the brass less, I could de-prime without sizing, then size with the LFC/bulge buster, then expand/bell, then seat, then crimp

is there any bonus to using a standard size die vs. the buster/lfc size set-up?? in theory, the haronady size/de-prime die does not have any internal guide rod to center the case in the die any different than the BB set-up does, unless I'm looking at it wrong

do you guys have a preference on crimp dies? is a standard taper crimp better/worse than the lee FCD (with sleeve installed)

I have used the Lee rifle FCD before, but they use a split colet crimp sleeve vs, the tapered crimp sleeve in the pistol versions
« Last Edit: August 16, 2017, 01:32:37 PM by Texashogman »
RIA 52000, PVL chest holster, Montana 200WFN

5 dollars waiting on 5 cents

The_Shadow

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Re: Sizing die question
« Reply #5 on: August 16, 2017, 01:17:24 PM »
The benefit to using a regular sizing die is it will squeeze the neck area smaller and the expander plug will uniform that back and straighten the neck and flare the case mouth slightly to prevent crushing as the bullet is pressed inside.  These two steps are what sets the tension of the bullet to be held tightly inside the casing and prevent bullet setback issues.  Some brass will spring back after sizing, how much depends on the malleability of the alloy and condition of the brass casing in use.

That being said, I like what the LEE FCD can do as a bulge buster for that operation only.  I use it to iron out expansion not reached by conventional sizing dies because of the radius in the opening and the shell holder not allowing a full reach into the affected region...using mine on 10mm, 40 S&W, 357 Sig and 9x25Dillon to insure 100% reliability that my ammo will feed in any of my 10mm guns or with their conversion barrels for the above mention cartridges.
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Texashogman

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Re: Sizing die question
« Reply #6 on: August 16, 2017, 01:26:33 PM »
How far down the case do you run your standard size die after you use the bb? You mentioned in a prior post that you kept the die up off the shell holder some.

I've loaded other auto pistol cases (9mm,40&45acp)  for quite a while (started back in 1993) but I've never really pushed the load data threshold too much before in pistol (other than my 45colt Blackhawk loads but rimmed cases with roll crimps are different) also the pressures that 10mm reaches are much higher than the other auto pistol cases I've done before so I'm just trying to learn and apply all that I can to maximize this caliber to it's full potential . There is always more to learn.
RIA 52000, PVL chest holster, Montana 200WFN

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The_Shadow

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Re: Sizing die question
« Reply #7 on: August 16, 2017, 01:58:20 PM »
I use an RCBS 10mm die set which was purchased before 40 S&W and the seater/crimp die of that set would not properly crimp a 40S&W.  But I do have my RCBS Sizer Die set to touch the shell holder with the lightest cam over so it makes contact with the shelholder with a casing inside.

Quote
BUT my hornady die sizes the same cases to .417" at the mouth with a slight taper to .420-.421" at the base
Is the Hornady sizing the brass too much? Or the Lee sizing too little? Or am I using the Lee die wrong?

What I was mentioning about raising the sizer off the shellholder was for your Hornady die as it like others seem to be ground and finished to a very tight tolerance and backing it off away from the full contact of the shellholder or plate can help with over sizing.  Why did I mention this?  Some guys actually saw the brass roll a rim or ridge with theirs.
Starline brass usually comes sized at 0.4215" just above the extractor cut, so using that as a guide 0.42000" could be a little  small. 

Originally I bought the LEE FCD to crimp the 40 S&W ammo but wasn't happy with those results.  Now the FCD is a Pass-through sizer only for me...
The "10mm" I'm Packin', Has The Bullets Wackin', Smakin' & The Slide is Rackin' & Jackin'!
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jazzsax8

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Re: Sizing die question
« Reply #8 on: August 20, 2017, 12:28:03 PM »
I use my Lee FCD .40/10mm die guts removed to bulge bust the head.  I then take a Lee .44 FCD and put the .40/10mm guts into it for the final crimp.  I use the Hornady seating die just before it in my Hornady 5 stage loader to seat the bullet to length with no crimp.  The Lee FCD then just crimps the case without seating the bullet further.

I use the same process for 9mm using the .40/10mm FCD and the 9mm guts.