Author Topic: Pass-Thru Sizing using LEE FCD  (Read 29238 times)

sqlbullet

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Re: Pass-Thru Sizing using LEE FCD
« Reply #15 on: April 04, 2013, 07:58:13 AM »
You will want want the die as high as it will go in the press to take advantage of the top of the stroke leverage!  Both system should work well!
Good luck!

What? The case goes ALL the way though the Redding die. It doesn't use a shellholder, just a push rod. I don't know how the Lee works

Leverage.  You want the hardest part of the sizing to come at the very end of the arm movement, when you have the best mechanical advantage.

gandog56

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Re: Pass-Thru Sizing using LEE FCD
« Reply #16 on: April 04, 2013, 12:18:55 PM »
Well that's where the entire case passes through the Redding dies, at the very apex.
Some people think I'm paranoid because I have so many guns. With all my guns, what do I have to be paranoid about?

Bongo Boy

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Re: Pass-Thru Sizing using LEE FCD
« Reply #17 on: June 02, 2013, 09:16:31 PM »
I've been getting more interesting in doing this with my 10 and 40 cases. When sizing the 10mm lately, I seem to be getting quite a pronounced shoulder at the bottom of the case. I've reduced how far I size down, now stopping at about 1/8" or slightly more from the beginning of the extraction groove. But, I still see quite a shoulder there. Pass-through would be one way to avoid this, and could possibly ensure more reliable chambering (although I haven't see a problem yet). I can see where several cycles of push through sizing might eventually harden the brass and call for some annealing, but not sure if that's 10 cycles or a 100.

I thought about using the Redding double ring die as an alternative, but at $100 I'm not so sure it's the right way to go.

sqlbullet

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Re: Pass-Thru Sizing using LEE FCD
« Reply #18 on: June 03, 2013, 10:14:06 AM »
Get the lee kit.  Far cheaper and works just as good.

DenStinett

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Re: Pass-Thru Sizing using LEE FCD
« Reply #19 on: June 03, 2013, 09:59:16 PM »
Odd that I found this thread, right when I have an issue of my own

I can shoot any of my 10mm Reloads in my Delta Gold Cup and in the Compact Upper of my Witness and not have a resizing issue
BUT, when I shoot them in the Longslide Upper on the Witness, I get a slight bulging above the Web
Not to say they wouldn't fit the DGC or the Compact Chamber, but I use Cartridge Gaughes to check all my Reloads and the Longslide Shoot Cases will not resize fully
So to fix my issue;
I pulled the DeCap Pin out of my RCBS die and I then used the (RCBS) Large Primer Swager to press the Case fully into the Sizing Die
Then I used a Punch to drive the Case out, and now they all fit perfectly into my Cartradge Gauge
While doing this, I noted that if I pressed too far, the Case would go inside, past the Sizing Ring
I thought that it would be cool if the Top of the Sizing Die could be removed, it would work GREAT as a Size Through Die
So tell me again how Trump will be worse then the last 8 years !

gandog56

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Re: Pass-Thru Sizing using LEE FCD
« Reply #20 on: June 04, 2013, 09:38:16 AM »
Way too much work. Just do yourself a favor and get the Redding or Lee set ups. It goes way faster and is a lot easier.
Some people think I'm paranoid because I have so many guns. With all my guns, what do I have to be paranoid about?

sqlbullet

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Re: Pass-Thru Sizing using LEE FCD
« Reply #21 on: June 04, 2013, 04:15:00 PM »
The lee die is the deal.  Not only does it have the same carbide ring used in the normal sizing die, but it can be use as a factory crimp die if desired.

DM1906

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Re: Pass-Thru Sizing using LEE FCD
« Reply #22 on: June 04, 2013, 05:07:08 PM »
Odd that I found this thread, right when I have an issue of my own

I can shoot any of my 10mm Reloads in my Delta Gold Cup and in the Compact Upper of my Witness and not have a resizing issue
BUT, when I shoot them in the Longslide Upper on the Witness, I get a slight bulging above the Web
Not to say they wouldn't fit the DGC or the Compact Chamber, but I use Cartridge Gaughes to check all my Reloads and the Longslide Shoot Cases will not resize fully
So to fix my issue;
I pulled the DeCap Pin out of my RCBS die and I then used the (RCBS) Large Primer Swager to press the Case fully into the Sizing Die
Then I used a Punch to drive the Case out, and now they all fit perfectly into my Cartradge Gauge
While doing this, I noted that if I pressed too far, the Case would go inside, past the Sizing Ring
I thought that it would be cool if the Top of the Sizing Die could be removed, it would work GREAT as a Size Through Die

I would not recommend this.  There's a very good reason sizing dies only go so far.  They could design a sizing die that would do that, but they don't.  The web of the case is "expendable", meaning, when it's out of spec, you toss the brass.  A pass-through die won't/shouldn't resize the web.  Once they get too hard to push through, the brass is done, and prone to failure with continued use.  Working the brass back into place only weakens it.  The case web and head should never be resized.  Most every "straight wall" case isn't really straight, as they have a taper, or curve, to them, wider at the web/head.  Forcing them to case mouth diameter will change the internal dimensions as well, and can deform the primer pocket.  9mm, for example, have an exaggerated taper.  They aren't straight, at all.  This is also the reason there is no pass-through die option for them.
Life's tough. It's tougher if you're stupid. -- The Duke

Bongo Boy

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Re: Pass-Thru Sizing using LEE FCD
« Reply #23 on: June 05, 2013, 12:00:48 PM »
Sure pleased to see someone out there thinks about the tools in the toolbox and how they can be used to do things other than what's on the label.

I just plugged in my FCD (with guts removed), and with a little lube, this is a breeze. While I can of course see where the case has been sized (burnished very nicely, thank you), I can no longer feel any shoulder at all (as you might expect). It's wonderful. The only single aspect of my setup that would make this trivial would be to have a Rockchucker to dedicate to single-stroke operations like this. Pretty sure I know how to remove the shellplate and drill and tap the head for a forcing pin, though. :) Sweeeet!

Thanks, Wade. You just saved me buying something I don't need and I wasn't using the FCD for anything anyway.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2013, 12:04:40 PM by Bongo Boy »

DenStinett

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Re: Pass-Thru Sizing using LEE FCD
« Reply #24 on: June 05, 2013, 07:07:32 PM »
DM:
The Webb fits into the Case Gauge just fine
The bulde is above / forward of the Webb
Just out of reach (by meer thousands) of the Sizing Ring on my Die
So tell me again how Trump will be worse then the last 8 years !

sqlbullet

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Re: Pass-Thru Sizing using LEE FCD
« Reply #25 on: June 05, 2013, 08:12:26 PM »
DenStinett, I think you might be missing DM's point.  A 22 will fit in your 10mm case gauge too.  Doesn't mean it fits you chamber.

Pushing the case web that far into a die that resizes it down to the diameter of the mouth works the brass too much, making it brittle.  That means it is more likely to crack and fail catastrophically.

The increased probability may be small, but is present.  Just not something to gamble with when a proper tool is so cheap.

DenStinett

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Re: Pass-Thru Sizing using LEE FCD
« Reply #26 on: June 05, 2013, 08:31:28 PM »
Understood
TNX

Odd thing though;
I have the Wilson 10mm Case Gauge, and I can drop a Factory Case in Head first and fit perfect
It's almost like it could be used as a Trim Die
Leads me to think it is as if the Side Walls, within the Gauge, are parallel
The Cases shot in the Longslide will fit into the Chamber after resizing, but I didn't want to keep different Loads for different Pistols
I guess I couls, I already do that with my four different .308s
So tell me again how Trump will be worse then the last 8 years !

DM1906

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Re: Pass-Thru Sizing using LEE FCD
« Reply #27 on: June 05, 2013, 11:47:27 PM »
Understood
TNX

Odd thing though;
I have the Wilson 10mm Case Gauge, and I can drop a Factory Case in Head first and fit perfect
It's almost like it could be used as a Trim Die
Leads me to think it is as if the Side Walls, within the Gauge, are parallel
The Cases shot in the Longslide will fit into the Chamber after resizing, but I didn't want to keep different Loads for different Pistols
I guess I couls, I already do that with my four different .308s

If you have more than one pistol shooting the same caliber, size your target loads to fit the tightest chamber.  That's what I've done for over 30 years, successfully.  I have a few dozen cartridge gages (around here, somewhere).  I used to use them, but haven't in decades.  All they tell you is if your rounds fit in the gage.  If you're loading for guns you have, check them in the chambers.  If they fit, they're good.  If you have feed issues, something else is wrong.  If you load for other chambers, like for friends/guests with unknown guns, the case gage is even less helpful.

I load 2 types of rounds.  Business and pleasure.

For pleasure rounds (target, etc.), I have a rotation of brass (for all the calibers I load), and they're used until they are lost, fail, or begin to fail.  There are so many (many 10's of thousands), there's no way I would begin to count their loadings.  These are never 100% full power loads, although many are very close, but not so close the brass gets an excessive workout, and every case is inspected before reloading.

Business rounds are completely different, and I have a very specific process.  First, every piece of new brass is loaded and fired, right out of the box (if it isn't within spec, requiring a trip to the sizer or a trim, it goes to the "other" rotation immediately).  The "proof" load is about 90% of the intended final load, same lot of powder, primers and bullets.  The brass is collected, inspected, cleaned, inspected, measured, then loaded again (if it passes) to full power.  1/2 of the lot is fired on the range, the other 1/2 is labeled and stored for "business" use.  Each lot gets a repeat every 2 years (my shelf life for SD or hunting rounds), with the brass inspected and sent to the other rotation.  It may sound like a bunch of nonsense, but someone's life may depend on it.  Proof firing of the brass is absolutely necessary, in my opinion.  Too many times over the years I've seen and had failures with brand new components, even factory rounds.  Every significant KB! I've had were with brand new, never fired brass, at less than max load.  I won't have any hesitation pulling down an entire lot, for one failure, of any kind.  There's too much at stake, and I take it very serious.  As serious as anything I do.  I have to do everything right, every time, or someone may die or become seriously injured.  The bad guy only has to be successful once.  Not on my watch.  Ever.
Life's tough. It's tougher if you're stupid. -- The Duke

DenStinett

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Re: Pass-Thru Sizing using LEE FCD
« Reply #28 on: June 06, 2013, 10:21:12 PM »
I hear ya DM

In the 40+ years I've reloaded, I have ran into this with one other Weapon
My Marlin 1894C leaves pretty much the same thing on my .38 / .357 Cases
And there again, I have to remove the DeCap Pin and "full length" resize by running the Case into the Die to the Rim
To date, I have yet to have an issue
I reload all of my Centerfire Rounds, save these;
Any of our CC / PD / HD Loads (I guess what you call your "business" rounds)
And the Rounds I reload will run through any Weapon I (or anyone else) would ever want to use

I'm sure I have loaded / reloaded hundreds of thousands of Round over the years
In all that time, have only had three malfunctions;  one Primer and two (Range Pick-up) Brass failures (I will never use Rang Brass again, unless it's clearly once fired)
In my 40+ years of loading, I have never seen or even hear of a Primer coming from the Manufacture without an Anvil
But I had one last weekend
So tell me again how Trump will be worse then the last 8 years !

DM1906

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Re: Pass-Thru Sizing using LEE FCD
« Reply #29 on: June 06, 2013, 11:36:01 PM »
I hear ya DM

In the 40+ years I've reloaded, I have ran into this with one other Weapon
My Marlin 1894C leaves pretty much the same thing on my .38 / .357 Cases
And there again, I have to remove the DeCap Pin and "full length" resize by running the Case into the Die to the Rim
To date, I have yet to have an issue
I reload all of my Centerfire Rounds, save these;
Any of our CC / PD / HD Loads (I guess what you call your "business" rounds)
And the Rounds I reload will run through any Weapon I (or anyone else) would ever want to use

I'm sure I have loaded / reloaded hundreds of thousands of Round over the years
In all that time, have only had three malfunctions;  one Primer and two (Range Pick-up) Brass failures (I will never use Rang Brass again, unless it's clearly once fired)
In my 40+ years of loading, I have never seen or even hear of a Primer coming from the Manufacture without an Anvil
But I had one last weekend

Yeah, you got it.  Maybe it takes more 3 decades, or more, of (successful) experience.  I've had a few primers minus the anvil, but caught every one.  I consider myself lucky.  Running the progressive presses, I would have likely missed them under the right (wrong) conditions.  That's just one possibility, of many.  My "failures" have been few and far between, and none due to my lack of attention, and none catastrophic.  Lucky, I suppose.  Call it what you want.

I have seen many issues with the .357M rifles, of all brands.  I think they're an animal all to their own.
Life's tough. It's tougher if you're stupid. -- The Duke