Author Topic: Pass-Thru Sizing using LEE FCD  (Read 27013 times)

The_Shadow

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Pass-Thru Sizing using LEE FCD
« on: January 14, 2013, 08:33:27 AM »
What does "Pass-Thru Sizing do?  You ever have a reloaded casing not fit inside you chamber freely?  Have you ever used a cartridge case gauge?  This gauge is tighter than any chamber for you pistols and is used to verify your loaded cartridges to be within SAAMI specs dimensionally.


Here is a picture of a casing that was sized in an RCBS Carbide sizer touching the shellholder as it sits in the Lyman Case Gauge...it did fit my barrel chamber of the S&W1006 but not the LWD chamber.


Here is that same casing after being run thru the Lee FCD used as a "Pass-Thru Sizer" as it sits in the Lyman Case Gauge...
It is flush with the "Go" line and below the "No-Go"...


Why Pass-Thru Sizing? Standard sizing dies do not resize the areas below the radius of the standard sizing die's mouth or carbide ring.  I have worked with range brass for years and I see plenty of bulged and even some "SMILED" brass as shot for various pistols.  Oh this only works for casings that are the same extractor rim as the casing body...10mm, 40S&W, 357Sig, 9x25Dillon.  There are others which will work using the correct FCD for those cartridges.

I clean my brass first in the tumbler to remove most of the debris, then size using the LEE FCD with its guts removed, using nothing but the carbide ring section of this die.  I set this die body very high in the press (good compound type) to take advantage of the leverage.  In the picture below this is a rimmed case but it is to show the inside of the die body of a LEE FCD.

This die needs to be as far to the top of the press stroke for best leverage but still allow the casing to pass completely thru the carbide sizer ring; it will remain inside the die body till the next few cases push it out the top of the die body.

I use a bullet push-pin from a 40 cal/10mm LEE bullet sizer kit in place of the shell holder on the ram to push on the casing's head.  The LEE Bulge Buster Kit contains a pin (smaller diameter and shorter to use with several cartridges) and a plastic catch can.

It is small enough to go inside the the sizing die and strong enough and large enough surface to apply the force to push the brass up and thru the carbide ring.

While this is adding an extra step it gives me a chance to further inspect the casings, especially 40S&W and 10mm as these are high pressure cartridges. Slight bulges or OK but "Smiled" brass is trash! "Smiled" brass has started to shear and cannot be ironed back into place 

Doing the pass thru uniforms the casing completely even the extractor rims to nice concentric round rim.

I was pass thru sizing some 45 ACP to condition them for the loading process and found the Speer and CCI cases are different from all other manufactures brass. The Speer and CCI cases show a bright ring just in front of the extractor cut and also the extractor rim itself as the carbide ring is squeezing this down to a uniform size of the carbide ring! Dimensionally it must be slightly larger in diameter than all of the other makes of brass with a few others that are almost as that size. If you do pass thru sizing you will feel exactly what I experienced.

One thing I can say is that once these brass have been processed with the Pass-Thru-Sizer system they will fit cartridge case gauges where as I have seen conventional sizing dies not remove all case expansion enough to drop freely in and out of the cartridge case gauges.

Hope this explanation provides some insight to Pass-Thru-Sizing and its benefits!

LEE's instructions for the Pass-Thru Setup http://www.leeprecision.com/cgi-data/instruct/1855.pdf
Redding G-Rx Push Thru Die setup http://www.redding-reloading.com/new-products/3-g-rx-push-thru-base-sizing-die

We had a great discussing over at GlockTalk about the "SMILED" brass.
http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1403261

Once the brass is "SMILED" it will not iron out because the brass has started to shear...


The "SMILED" brass was run thru the Pass-thru-die system but it does not remove or repair the shearing...look close at the left side of this casing.


Same brass different view...This isn't the best picture, but the brass is shiny from resizing above and below the smile, but the smile is still visible. This chambered just fine before sectioning. This is the piece of brass in the picture above.


Thanks to Yondering who originally posted these pictures of the smiled brass over at GT!
« Last Edit: June 12, 2013, 08:57:32 AM by The_Shadow »
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gandog56

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Re: Pass-Thru Sizing using LEE FCD
« Reply #1 on: February 16, 2013, 09:33:09 AM »
I use the Redding GR-x sizing die for both 10mm and .40 cal S&W cases(AND 357 SIG cases) after tumbling them clean and initial sizing. I heard you just remove the top from a Lee FCD and use a rod to do the same thing. But remember this only works for rimless cartridges.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2013, 01:04:33 PM by gandog56 »
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claimbuster

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Re: Pass-Thru Sizing using LEE FCD
« Reply #2 on: February 16, 2013, 01:53:04 PM »
I use a Redding GR-x on range pickup 40 S&W to get rid of any Glock bulges. I only do that the first time the brass goes into my inventory as my 40's are both STI's.  My 10 brass starts as all new Starline and doesn't get pushed thru sizing.

I don't work my brass anymore than I have too so I only full length, push thru when it is absolutely needed to assure that my loads feed properly.

Steve4102

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Re: Pass-Thru Sizing using LEE FCD
« Reply #3 on: February 23, 2013, 07:24:18 AM »
  I use the GR-X die for 10MM and 40.  I found it to work much better than the Lee Factory Crimp die.  My LFCD seems to be smaller that the GR-X die, so small actually.  I had to push so hard I broke part of my bench.  With the GR-X die they go through with minimal effort.

  I also use this die to kinda sorta gauge the pressures of my handloads.  A weak or mid-range load will slip through the die with ease, a Max load may be a little harder but not much.  I load that is "hot" will be difficult to pass through, will be discarded and the load or loads will be marked as over pressure.

  I can't do this with my LFCD as everything is hard to pass through.

sqlbullet

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Re: Pass-Thru Sizing using LEE FCD
« Reply #4 on: February 25, 2013, 07:04:17 AM »
How old is your FCD?  The early ones were noted to be on the very tight side.  Later ones are much better.

I have no issues pushing brass through mine.

Steve4102

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Re: Pass-Thru Sizing using LEE FCD
« Reply #5 on: February 25, 2013, 03:55:52 PM »
How old is your FCD?  The early ones were noted to be on the very tight side.  Later ones are much better.

I have no issues pushing brass through mine.

Duno, I actually had to send it back to Lee to open it up .0015 as it was difficult to use as a Standard Crimp Die.  Haven't tried it as a push through since I opened it up and purchased the GR-X.  I'll give it a try and see how it goes.

The_Shadow

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Re: Pass-Thru Sizing using LEE FCD
« Reply #6 on: February 25, 2013, 04:07:55 PM »
You will want want the die as high as it will go in the press to take advantage of the top of the stroke leverage!  Both system should work well!
Good luck!
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gandog56

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Re: Pass-Thru Sizing using LEE FCD
« Reply #7 on: February 28, 2013, 03:15:46 PM »
Yeah, since 10mm brass is kind of expensive I belong to a few forums with brass trading sections. When I trade for once fired 10mm brass, I always run it through my Redding GR-x full case sizer, because who knows if it was fired from like a Glock. The guy trading it usually just picked up free ones from his range, and doesn't have a 10mm.(Otherwise he would know NOT to trade it!) Most of my 9mm and .45 cases came from scarfed up free brass from my range. The problem is.....I have so many different caliber guns that I usually don't have many I scarf for free I don't shoot myself.
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RMM

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Re: Pass-Thru Sizing using LEE FCD
« Reply #8 on: March 02, 2013, 02:31:40 PM »
OK, so I've got a few questions regarding the bulge buster / LEE FCD.

Right now I'm still waiting on backordered dies for my 9MM & 10MM.  I have a G26, G17, & Kel-Tec PF9 9MM.  I also have the 10MM G20.  All have stock barrels.  I am mainly concerned with the brass fired in Glock barrels, which are well known for their spaciousness.  Can I reload it safely? 

My plan is to run only new 10MM Starline cases for "full-power" 10MM loads, then relegate them to plinker loads (40 S&W power level  ;D)

My 9MM cases are all once, or multiple fired cases.  It is not cost effective for me to buy new 9MM cases.  Some of them are from me, others are random pickups.   

I have cleaned all these cases and discarded any of them that look even remotely suspicious to my recycle pile.

-Using the standard Lee dies (4-die carbide set) am I going to run into problems without full-length resizing these cases?
-If I do full-length re-size the cases, how much will I be decreasing their lifespan?  10%?  50%?
-Do you use any case lube when using the pass through die?

Just trying to understand whether it is worth the money, and what other pitfalls are involved in this process.

Thanks!
Richard - G20SF

The_Shadow

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Re: Pass-Thru Sizing using LEE FCD
« Reply #9 on: March 02, 2013, 04:06:27 PM »
Richard, I pass-thru size every time no matter which gun they are shot from (All 10mm, 40S&W, 357Sig & 9x25Dillon cases to insure they will pass the cartridge case gauge, even 45ACP too in the appropriate FCD)...I don't think that this reconditioning degrades the longevity of brass life.  Shooting in the loose chambers will allow the expansion on each firing so the brass gets worked even more.  Careful inspection to eliminate any "smiled" or damaged cases.

With the FCD it is a carbide ring that is doing the work, I don't lube mine but I do tumble brass clean prior to the re-sizing.

I do handload many used cases to full potential after careful inspection.  I know my guns and how they handle each load I use including those that memick Underwood & SwampFox.  But nothing says you can't load to lighter levels for playtime.
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Re: Pass-Thru Sizing using LEE FCD
« Reply #10 on: March 04, 2013, 09:34:48 AM »
Thanks for the reply Shadow.  I think I am probably over-analyzing this whole thing!  I guess that's what happens when you are sitting on components too long...  ;) .  After my dies show up (someday) and I actually get to loading some of this brass, then I'll probably be back here with more questions. 

I contemplated buying an aftermarket barrel to help extend brass life, but I also figured that $120 can buy a LOT of brass!  I am really not planning on shooting lead.  The savings are appealing, but for me right now time not spent cleaning guns and fooling around is worth more than the money I would save.  I am, after, all, loading with a press clamped to an office desk in my little apartment here in Seattle.  Simplification is key!
Richard - G20SF

jiminthe burg

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Re: Pass-Thru Sizing using LEE FCD
« Reply #11 on: March 09, 2013, 05:20:49 PM »





    I want to buy a Lee taper crimp die to use ( appropriate part ) in the Lee Bulge buster for my 10 mm. Can't get a carbide taper crimp but have found non-carbide taper crimp die for < $10.00 w/o shipping and it is in stock.
    I have always reloaded handguns ammo using carbide dies. Would I need some kind of lubricant w/ steel and exactly what is it?
    Any major disadvantages using plain steel?
    Would I be better off waiting for a carbide die?
     Usually, don't have a problem w/ my 1006 or stock barrel for my G-20 as the barrels are not as tight as my Lone Wolf and the cylinder on my 610 and then only occasionally w/ a bulged case.

DM1906

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Re: Pass-Thru Sizing using LEE FCD
« Reply #12 on: March 10, 2013, 11:36:21 AM »





    I want to buy a Lee taper crimp die to use ( appropriate part ) in the Lee Bulge buster for my 10 mm. Can't get a carbide taper crimp but have found non-carbide taper crimp die for < $10.00 w/o shipping and it is in stock.
    I have always reloaded handguns ammo using carbide dies. Would I need some kind of lubricant w/ steel and exactly what is it?
    Any major disadvantages using plain steel?
    Would I be better off waiting for a carbide die?
     Usually, don't have a problem w/ my 1006 or stock barrel for my G-20 as the barrels are not as tight as my Lone Wolf and the cylinder on my 610 and then only occasionally w/ a bulged case.

The lube or no lube question only applies to sizing, with pistol dies.  If you have a steel sizing die, they need lube.  The "crimp" die makes no difference, carbide or steel.  Most "crimp" dies are steel, but the Lee FCD crimp ring and sizer (the bulge buster part) is carbide.  Rifle dies and sizing (for tapered or bottle-neck cases), on the other hand, is very different.  Lube is required every time, with the exception of collet neck sizers.  Straight wall rifle cases, such as .45-70, are sized and loaded the same as pistol cartridges.  Bottle-neck pistol cartridges, such as .357 Sig, are loaded like rifle cartridges, and lube is required for sizing.

If your 10mm sizing die is in fact steel, you'll need to use case sizing lube.  Otherwise, no lube for any part of the process.
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gandog56

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Re: Pass-Thru Sizing using LEE FCD
« Reply #13 on: March 14, 2013, 01:06:16 PM »
I use a Redding GR-x on range pickup 40 S&W to get rid of any Glock bulges. I only do that the first time the brass goes into my inventory as my 40's are both STI's.  My 10 brass starts as all new Starline and doesn't get pushed thru sizing.

I don't work my brass anymore than I have too so I only full length, push thru when it is absolutely needed to assure that my loads feed properly.

Yeah, I only need to do it once if I have a few range pickups or buy once fired cases I don't know from what they were shot with.
Some people think I'm paranoid because I have so many guns. With all my guns, what do I have to be paranoid about?

gandog56

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Re: Pass-Thru Sizing using LEE FCD
« Reply #14 on: April 03, 2013, 05:23:07 PM »
You will want want the die as high as it will go in the press to take advantage of the top of the stroke leverage!  Both system should work well!
Good luck!

What? The case goes ALL the way though the Redding die. It doesn't use a shellholder, just a push rod. I don't know how the Lee works
Some people think I'm paranoid because I have so many guns. With all my guns, what do I have to be paranoid about?