Author Topic: Cross section of a smiley  (Read 18587 times)

sqlbullet

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Re: Cross section of a smiley
« Reply #15 on: March 15, 2013, 10:48:48 AM »
This ^^^

To take the most care you ought to measure each case head for expansion and concentricity and toss any that deviate above certain levels.  Not conducive to speedy reloading though, so we just toss the smiles and BB the rest.

cwlongshot

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Re: Cross section of a smiley
« Reply #16 on: March 15, 2013, 02:28:03 PM »
When I am working up loads I watch this REALLY closely. After the load is proven, I do look the cases over before loading, but also feel them as I de-prime, prime, re-size. If I ''feel'' a swell its likely too much and I toss it in the scrap bucket.

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The_Shadow

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Re: Cross section of a smiley
« Reply #17 on: March 15, 2013, 03:13:08 PM »
It all goes back to knowing you equipment, and its short comings!  Myself, I inspect them & "Pass-Thru" size all my 10mm, 40S&W, 357Sig and 9x25Dillon cartridges using the LEE FCD with the guts removed, taking advantage of the carbide ring, which provides me with the best reconditioning & uniforming of my cases.  I don't care what LEE states, I'm glad they made the FCD with a carbide sizing ring which has been great for this step and cheaper than the Redding's product which was made to do the "Pass-Thru sizing thing!

I also "Pass-Thru" my 45ACP's, for the same reasons...
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gandog56

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Re: Cross section of a smiley
« Reply #18 on: March 18, 2013, 08:33:09 AM »
And I went with the Redding which I believe came out before any carbide FCD die was made.

Could be wrong there, but I Think the Redding was advertised as the ONLY absolutely full length case sizer.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2013, 05:44:50 PM by gandog56 »
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knowntofew

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Re: Cross section of a smiley
« Reply #19 on: June 18, 2013, 11:22:26 AM »
I was looking for the section where people post up recepies. I do have a question for the discussion of equipment though... How do you guys have your dies set up? I have mine set up so that the Lee Decap/Resize die only resizes about a 1/4" of the case mouth and I use the FCD to streighten the wall and light crimp the tip into place. I mention this only because the rounds seem to come out better when I do it this way imho, and everything done when reloading has an affect on the final product. Of coarse since I use aftermarket and tight chambered barrels in all of my firearms my brass does not buldge as much and is therefore resized signifigantly less and has lasted longer for me, but I have tenth generation full power reloads that I feel I would not have had, had I not switched to the die set up I have now.
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The_Shadow

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Re: Cross section of a smiley
« Reply #20 on: June 18, 2013, 11:36:33 AM »
Well being new to the forum you have a lot to look over for  your answer.  With your chamber being one with better case support really helps to minimize case stretch / bulges.  These two links may help your quest.
http://10mm-firearms.com/reloading-10mm-ammo/how-to-use-lee-fcd-without-full-length-sizing/

http://10mm-firearms.com/reloading-10mm-ammo/pass-thru-sizing-using-lee-fcd/
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REDLINE

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Re: Cross section of a smiley
« Reply #21 on: June 20, 2013, 05:04:55 PM »
I was looking for the section where people post up recepies.

We don't have a subforum specifically for 10mm Handload Recipes.  Some post that information in the 10mm Reloading subforum where we are right now.  You can always request a new subforum here - http://10mm-firearms.com/questionssuggestions/  We do have the Factory Ammo Pull-Down subforums for factory ammo loads of 10mm and otherwise showing what the manufacturers are creating their loads with.

I personally would second the motion for a subforum limited to handloaded 10mm recipes.
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gandog56

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Re: Cross section of a smiley
« Reply #22 on: June 20, 2013, 05:49:10 PM »
But I only USE one recipe for my 10mm!

Well, maybe someday I will see a real deal in a different weight 10mm bullet and snap it up. But it would have to beat the current 185 grain @ $108/1000 shipping included  I'm paying now.
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sqlbullet

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Re: Cross section of a smiley
« Reply #23 on: June 26, 2013, 08:37:22 AM »
If I had more time it would be fun to develop a site for 10mm handloads.  A forum is less than idea as a way to catalog that type of data.  I think a Wiki combined with a custom database drive site for load data would be idea.

handloads.10mm-firearms.com....

Wish I had the time to get that site up and running.

Maybe once my house is finished I will have a few hours.

REDLINE

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Re: Cross section of a smiley
« Reply #24 on: June 26, 2013, 11:49:16 AM »
If I had more time it would be fun to develop a site for 10mm handloads.

AMEN to that! 8)
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Mike_Fontenot

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Re: Cross section of a smiley
« Reply #25 on: December 01, 2013, 01:24:36 PM »
In my mind that's always been the difference between a lite bulge and an actual smile.  I thought if there was no smile, then there was no actual shearing taking place yet.  Maybe I'm wrong.  Just seemed logical.

I would agree, a bulge lacks any sharp edge. Brass is quite forgiving and although any movement ''works'' the brass into a weaker state, the less it moves the better or longer it lasts. The sharp bend of a smile are what makes the brass scrap.


OK ... the above seems to get at the essence of my question: smiles have a sharp edge, bulges do not.  But what exactly causes that sharp edge?  I've seen several posts that (I think) suggest that that sharp edge is caused by the expanding case being pushed against the edge of the feed ramp.  Is that always the cause?  Does it occur for both chamber-mounted feed ramps AND frame-mounted feed ramps?  Does it occur only in "unsupported barrels"?  Can it occur in essentially all makes and models of the 10mm: Glocks, Witnesses, 1911's with feed-ramp barrels (like the Kimber (and most other 1911's, I think)), 1911's without feed-ramp barrels (like the Colt Delta Elite), older S&W 10mm models, ... ?

Yondering

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Re: Cross section of a smiley
« Reply #26 on: December 01, 2013, 05:15:48 PM »
Yes to all of the above Mike. Pretty much all semi-auto pistol barrels are "unsupported" to a degree, regardless of the manufacturers claims. (Revolver chambers are fully supported, you won't see a "smiley" from one of those.) High pressure expanding the case, or the case head, against the feed ramp causes the smiley mark. Chambers with a more generous feed ramp will do this at a lower pressure, but it's always an indication to back down, like right now! I think many shooters here don't realize how close a smiley is to a full case blowout, but just a small change in pressure or case strength will turn a smiley into a blowout.

Mike_Fontenot

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Re: Cross section of a smiley
« Reply #27 on: December 02, 2013, 07:27:31 AM »
Yes to all of the above Mike. Pretty much all semi-auto pistol barrels are "unsupported" to a degree, regardless of the manufacturers claims. (Revolver chambers are fully supported, you won't see a "smiley" from one of those.)

Thanks for your response.

And I guess that "bulges" are not due to the case being creased by an abrupt edge (and so are smooth), and so (I guess) are caused by the temporary chamber expansion exceeding the elastic yield limit of the brass?  Or perhaps, some case expansion after ejection has started, and the rear of the brass is already clear of the barrel?

The_Shadow

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Re: Cross section of a smiley
« Reply #28 on: December 02, 2013, 07:50:28 AM »
Yondering has it right
Quote
always an indication to back down, like right now!
The simple fact regardless, the flowing, plasticity or the elastic yield limit of the brass, it is starting to shear on a molecular level against the area that lacks support.  Excessive bulging can be looked at as recycle materials as well.

You need to be careful who is selling brass as well, they run the brass through a roll-sizer, you may not even know just how bad the brass was stretched out prior to the sizing? ???

Conclusion: NOTHING CAN FIX THAT BRASS  :o (short of melting it down and starting as new brass)
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sqlbullet

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Re: Cross section of a smiley
« Reply #29 on: December 02, 2013, 09:42:31 AM »
You need to be careful who is selling brass as well, they run the brass through a roll-sizer, you may not even know just how bad the brass was stretched out prior to the sizing? ???

For the cost of new brass, compared to what most guys want for once-fired, I just stick with new brass when buying.  That solves the problem of how used brass was used before I got it.