Author Topic: Cross section of a smiley  (Read 18581 times)

The_Shadow

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Cross section of a smiley
« on: July 09, 2012, 12:55:03 PM »
Yondering, One of the memebrs here, a very knowledgeable handloader as well started a thread over at GlockTalk.  His pictures of "SMILED" cross sectioned brass before and after "pass thru sizing"
http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1403261
Here is what a "SMILED" case looks like

The metal has started to shear/tear and resizing and or pass thru sizing will not fix that situation to make them safe to re-use period!
 This is after pass thru sizing and is on the left side and it is still there but a little less, he sectioned two bulged cases, but ran the other one through a Lee FCD first to smooth out the bulge, just to see what that looks like. It does the job it's supposed to (let the brass chamber) but that "lip" is still there, and I wouldn't use that brass again.


Just keep in mind that from the evidence in the pictures you can see that a "SMILED" casing can not be repaired.

A BIG Thanks to Yondering for his work and pictures!
« Last Edit: July 09, 2012, 01:37:57 PM by The_Shadow »
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Vee_Kay

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Re: Cross section of a smiley
« Reply #1 on: July 14, 2012, 05:51:00 PM »
I finally got the Lee FCD and the bulge buster kit.  Silly question.   I noticed if I put the 10mm brass upside down on the ram I could increase my throughput by almost double and, not worry about my left hand leaving a finger too close when my right hand was starting to raise the ram. :o    You'd think those two hands would talk a little more than that.  Oh, yeah, the question, do you think it matters which direction the brass goes through the FCD?  :-\

The_Shadow

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Re: Cross section of a smiley
« Reply #2 on: July 14, 2012, 06:14:29 PM »
The pin I use will not fit inside the case so I have to push on the case head pushing the mouth inside the die first.
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DM1906

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Re: Cross section of a smiley
« Reply #3 on: July 14, 2012, 06:58:55 PM »
The pin I use will not fit inside the case so I have to push on the case head pushing the mouth inside the die first.

Mine doesn't fit, either.  I tried .40's inverted (just curious if there would be a difference/advantage) using a smaller anvil, and it lengthened the case.  It also etched the case web, which was never designed or intended to be impacted by steel (it isn't flat).  The cases are drawn in this manner (like inverted through the BB), so it stands to reason it would elongate.  The handle force necessary was about the same either way, so no advantage.  Only a negative outcome.  The case was fine before, but beyond max length after so I tossed it, and the idea.  A bulged 10mm (or .45 or .380) would likely see the same fate.
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sqlbullet

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Re: Cross section of a smiley
« Reply #4 on: July 14, 2012, 09:08:52 PM »
I have run them through both ways.  I prefer mouth first.  Like was said, it tends to stretch the brass the other way.

cwlongshot

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Re: Cross section of a smiley
« Reply #5 on: July 16, 2012, 03:31:47 PM »
I have never used a pass thru sizer die... never had the need.

A word on a case with such damage. IT WILL FAIL... Its best to toss it in the scrap bucket.  They CANNOT BE REPAIRED!

As for the Lee, FCD.. I like to call it the solution to a non existent problem...  ;D :o

CW
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REDLINE

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Re: Cross section of a smiley
« Reply #6 on: July 17, 2012, 11:16:41 PM »
Not even worth it for plinkers.  Why take the chance.
Gun Control?  Oh yes, the theory that becoming a victim is somehow morally superior to defending yourself & your family.  Makes perfect sense.

pasky2112

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Re: Cross section of a smiley
« Reply #7 on: August 27, 2012, 09:48:24 PM »
I have never used a pass thru sizer die... never had the need.

A word on a case with such damage. IT WILL FAIL... Its best to toss it in the scrap bucket.  They CANNOT BE REPAIRED!

As for the Lee, FCD.. I like to call it the solution to a non existent problem...  ;D :o

CW

I call it cheap insurance...  ;D
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gandog56

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Re: Cross section of a smiley
« Reply #8 on: March 14, 2013, 01:16:22 PM »
I have never used a pass thru sizer die... never had the need.

A word on a case with such damage. IT WILL FAIL... Its best to toss it in the scrap bucket.  They CANNOT BE REPAIRED!

As for the Lee, FCD.. I like to call it the solution to a non existent problem...  ;D :o

CW

Sorry, I disagree. A little Glock bulge can be fixed in once shot brass. I have had a few, and they still take reloading after 6-7 times later. (That's the most I've reloaded my 10mm cases so far)
Some people think I'm paranoid because I have so many guns. With all my guns, what do I have to be paranoid about?

cwlongshot

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Re: Cross section of a smiley
« Reply #9 on: March 14, 2013, 01:29:31 PM »
I have never used a pass thru sizer die... never had the need.

A word on a case with such damage. IT WILL FAIL... Its best to toss it in the scrap bucket.  They CANNOT BE REPAIRED!

As for the Lee, FCD.. I like to call it the solution to a non existent problem...  ;D :o

CW

Sorry, I disagree. A little Glock bulge can be fixed in once shot brass. I have had a few, and they still take reloading after 6-7 times later. (That's the most I've reloaded my 10mm cases so far)

I do not feel we are comparing apples to apples here... ;)

I agree, a LITTLE bulge CAN be straightened and reused with likely no fail.

The pic I was speaking of clearly has nearly sheared and just like any piece fop metal becomes fatigued to the point of imminent failure.

CW
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gandog56

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Re: Cross section of a smiley
« Reply #10 on: March 14, 2013, 07:01:08 PM »
Yep, but how would you know it unless you cut a case in a cross section. I've probably never gotten one that badly damaged.
Some people think I'm paranoid because I have so many guns. With all my guns, what do I have to be paranoid about?

REDLINE

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Re: Cross section of a smiley
« Reply #11 on: March 15, 2013, 01:55:18 AM »
In my mind that's always been the difference between a lite bulge and an actual smile.  I thought if there was no smile, then there was no actual shearing taking place yet.  Maybe I'm wrong.  Just seemed logical.
Gun Control?  Oh yes, the theory that becoming a victim is somehow morally superior to defending yourself & your family.  Makes perfect sense.

cwlongshot

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Re: Cross section of a smiley
« Reply #12 on: March 15, 2013, 02:35:28 AM »
In my mind that's always been the difference between a lite bulge and an actual smile.  I thought if there was no smile, then there was no actual shearing taking place yet.  Maybe I'm wrong.  Just seemed logical.

I would agree, a bulge lacks any sharp edge. Brass is quite forgiving and although any movement ''works'' the brass into a weaker state, the less it moves the better or longer it lasts. The sharp bend of a smile are what makes the brass scrap.

CW
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sqlbullet

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Re: Cross section of a smiley
« Reply #13 on: March 15, 2013, 07:16:28 AM »
The big concern I see is what if it tries to smile the same place twice?  That is why I toss any brass that smiles at me.

The "bulge buster" is safely used on cartridges fired in generous chambers like Glocks where case head expansion may have been large.  A full length die may not size these far enough down to return all of the head back a dimension that works reliably.

For instance, same loads fired in my Witness, Para and Glock...The Glock brass will be .005"-.007" bigger at the head after firing. No smile, all the way around same measure.  The bulge buster puts these back to spec .425"

DM1906

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Re: Cross section of a smiley
« Reply #14 on: March 15, 2013, 08:13:33 AM »
The Lee FCD and BB do exactly what they are designed to do.  Use them, or don't, your choice.  Has anyone actually read the BB product description or instruction sheet? The documentation that came with my BB kit clearly states, immediately below the first paragraph (product description), "Do not use the Bulge Buster Kit to reload for the 40 S&W Glock or similar guns with chambers that do not fully support the cartridge due to the intrusion of the feed ramp."

It seems Lee has already had this discussion.  If you use the BB on Glock fired brass, you aren't using it as designed.  I use it on Glock fired brass, but as has been repeated, there's no comparison between a "bulge" and a "smile".  Smiles are junk.  Excessive bulge is junk.  The warning is a CYA statement, and as with any process of handloading, use at your own risk.
Life's tough. It's tougher if you're stupid. -- The Duke