Author Topic: 1911 mainspring housing question  (Read 398 times)

Texashogman

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1911 mainspring housing question
« on: August 21, 2017, 07:05:31 PM »
K-- I've been playing with a few different springs in my RIA double-stack "1911"

RIA claims that they use a "25 pound" main/hammer spring (which is stronger than the stock 23 pound standard colt 1911 spring)

the hammer/main spring puts more pressure on the hammer to slide contact and can help slow down the slide recoil on heavy loads so I've been playing

I bought a 26 pound spring from wolff and when it came it is a tad bit longer and ALOT stronger than the 25 pound "stock" RIA spring--it makes it incredibly hard to cock the hammer by hand (though it cocks fine with slide rack) and this may be due to the extra length (or the extra pound)

my question lies in the length of the "stock" hammer/main spring and housing

 there are 2 lengths of mainspring housings -- the full size and the "officer frame" size--I assumed my pistol was a "fullsize" due to it's size but
since the RIA "HC" uses a different width magwell and it also has a  flared magwell adapter, I am wondering if it maybe uses the officers length mainspring housing and spring ---I have nothing to compare it to here right now.

can anyone measure either the length of their mainspring housing, or the length of their spring on their "1911" and let me know what it is so I can compare

thanks
RIA 52000, PVL chest holster, Montana 200WFN

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sqlbullet

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Re: 1911 mainspring housing question
« Reply #1 on: August 21, 2017, 07:48:17 PM »
It is full size.  I had planned to replace it with a bobtail version until I realized the frame was cut.  The mainspring housing guides extend below the rest of the frame cuts to enable the use of the full size housing.



A good option before you go on with spring weights is a flat bottom firing pin stop

Texashogman

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Re: 1911 mainspring housing question
« Reply #2 on: August 22, 2017, 08:13:51 AM »
already did the EGW OSFPS --- just wanted to play with springs to see what they did as they are pretty easy to replace and cheap

my problem is that the wolff MS is longer than the stock RIA spring --- I contacted RIA and they claim they use the wolff 25 pound spring -- I put the wolff 26 pound spring in and ---WOA MOMMA!!! it is a TON stronger than the stock RIA spring and it feels like it may be coil binding when the hammer is fully cocked---I have to use 2 hands to cock the hammer, trying to cock with my thumb is a no-go as I can get the hammer back, but it won't "latch" into the sear and it just goes back forward with my thumb.

It seems as if RIA uses a shorter main/hammer spring than "stock"

I have not and will not shoot my pistol in this modified form as I do not feel it is safe and I will convert back to stock form untill I can figure out what is wrong with the mainspring or housing

RIA is not very helpful, but this is understandable as I'm sure they don't "approve" of modifying their pistols


I looked in the manual and for all the "utra tac" models and standard models they use the #4549 main spring housing---BUT all the pro ultra match models list the #4530SC as the housing----I can't find any reference to this part number anywhere else and it is not in their "variance" chart with a description either


funny--- I just figured out today that the RIA owners manual has a bunch of misprints and mistakes in it when it comes to descriptions and part numbers --- the MSH part number is listed as 4530sc, but that is actually the trigger over travel stop screw --- part # 4549P is listed as the mainspring housing pin, but is actually the part number for the mainspring housing---problem with this part number is that it is a flat checkered polymer MSH--but mine is aluminum NOT polymer (I am 100 percent sure of this as I accidentally nicked the side of the housing when dis-assembling it) armscorp has a serrated steel FS flat and a checkered steel FS arched but they don't list an aluminum checkered flat MSH anywhere that they can find---- they are checking with an armorer then will get back to me ---I have a feeling it is special due to the cut frame and magwell for the HC versions
 
« Last Edit: August 22, 2017, 10:56:29 AM by Texashogman »
RIA 52000, PVL chest holster, Montana 200WFN

5 dollars waiting on 5 cents

sqlbullet

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Re: 1911 mainspring housing question
« Reply #3 on: August 22, 2017, 05:17:22 PM »
Per a PM conversation with Texashogman, I have measured all the 1911 mainspring housings I could get my hands on.  That totaled five. 

I measured them two places.  First, from the top inside edge to the bottom inside edge.  the inside edge is the part of the MSH that contacts the sear spring.  Second, from the top of the mainspring housing pin hole to the top of mainspring housing where the fingers that hold the grip safety intersect the rest of the top of the housing.

Here are the results:

Mainspring HousingLength1Length2
Ed Brown Bobtail1.9251.320
Para P16-40/10mm1.9001.670
RIA Rock1.8851.692
Ruger SR19111.9001.710
Para P12-451.2501.005

As you can see the Rock is just a touch shorter OAL, but a touch longer between the points the spring would be contained.  1 and 5 don't really count since they aren't standard full-size 1911 mainsprings. The Ed Brown has never been fit to a gun, and I suspect the extra .025" of length is for fitting.

Of 2,3,4 the dimensions are consistent from a median value both measurements.

This leads me to conclude the RIA uses a standard full size MSH.  And I was able to put the other two in, though I didn't set the pin and perform a full function check.

Hope this helps!

Edit:  Picture!

« Last Edit: August 23, 2017, 06:43:20 AM by sqlbullet »

Texashogman

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Re: 1911 mainspring housing question
« Reply #4 on: August 22, 2017, 06:22:39 PM »
Thanks, those measurements help.

It is definitely full-size but what is weird is that mine is aluminum and not polymer--- they don't seem to have a part number listed for a full-size aluminum housing...be interesting to see what the "ria armorer" comes up with

On a side note, I figured out what the problem was....yes then new Wolff spring is a tick longer--( see pic below of Wolff on left ria on right) BUT it was my mistake. The spring was indeed coil binding because I did not fully seat the main spring housing retainer pin correctly. Pin is seated now and everything works properly ... learning curve
RIA 52000, PVL chest holster, Montana 200WFN

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sqlbullet

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Re: 1911 mainspring housing question
« Reply #5 on: August 23, 2017, 06:42:42 AM »
Good to hear you got it working.  If only I had a nickle for each time I made a mistake like that.

Last night when putting the msh back in the big para I got the sear spring seated wrong and the hammer would follow since the sear had no pressure on it.  Had to take the MSH back out and put the sear spring in right.

Texashogman

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Re: 1911 mainspring housing question
« Reply #6 on: August 23, 2017, 07:01:22 AM »
Good to hear you got it working.  If only I had a nickle for each time I made a mistake like that.

Last night when putting the msh back in the big para I got the sear spring seated wrong and the hammer would follow since the sear had no pressure on it.  Had to take the MSH back out and put the sear spring in right.

haven't done that yet, been real careful to use my daughters hair band to keep the grip safety down to keep the spring in place---need to take it apart on purpose to tech myself how it all goes in though before I do it by accident



as a follow up, RIA got back to me and told me that they have discontinued the polymer MSH and only use aluminum or steel now, my model has the aluminum---- they still can't figure out what the part number is yet though, said they would have to research and get back to me (kinda scary) --- wonder if they had issues with the poly MSH like cracking or something??
RIA 52000, PVL chest holster, Montana 200WFN

5 dollars waiting on 5 cents

sqlbullet

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Re: 1911 mainspring housing question
« Reply #7 on: August 23, 2017, 07:24:01 AM »
I have used all three.  My RIA has the aluminum as well, and it seems like a good design.

The P16 has a poly, and I wasn't thrilled when I got it, but it was a bunch cheaper than any other options.  And it works just fine.

I imagine they change was just to cater to their market.  Their guns are perceived as "cheap" and anything they can do to mitigate that perception I think they try to do.