Author Topic: Am I ok with carrying loaded with 10mm ammo?  (Read 1206 times)

Olgo

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Am I ok with carrying loaded with 10mm ammo?
« on: August 28, 2017, 05:55:31 PM »
Right now I have the 40sw barrel in my G29 and loaded with Uw 40sw 155 XTP. I've read too much about 10mm being too powerful for defensive use and looking bad to the jury.

Right now I'm carrying the same caliber the cops carry yet I trust the 10mm to stop the threat quicker.
How powerful is 10mm? Well, see those craters on the moon?

Rick R

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Re: Am I ok with carrying loaded with 10mm ammo?
« Reply #1 on: August 28, 2017, 06:18:53 PM »
IANAL but I played police for thirty plus years.  8)

It depends on:
The jurisdiction your shooting occured in
The prosecutor and his/her political lean or aspirations
The guy investigating
Media attention
Who you shoot, how much you shot him and was he a target or collateral damage

Powerful guns, custom guns, modified guns, handloads, hollow points, other juju aren't problems until they are needed to catch the shooter up for some reason.  The fact that you modified your gun to use a caliber it wasn't designed to shoot by Herr Glock could become a point of contention if the moon and planets align.



Hold my beer and watch this, Don't try this at home kids, Professional driver on a closed course...

dan10mmman

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Re: Am I ok with carrying loaded with 10mm ammo?
« Reply #2 on: August 28, 2017, 06:54:14 PM »
Rick makes a great point here.  The fact that your pistol when fired leaves behind a different cartridge than it was designed for......an assassin may place a 38 S&W in a 357 to throw off the investigation.  Using a 40 in a 10mm could be looked on as slightly shady....just saying.  If for some terrible reason you should have to go hot, you would leave 40brass.  The police would logically look for a 40 firearm.......Did you use the 10mm to fool them.....casts some serious doubts in jurors minds.

You carry a 10mm feed it 10mm......there is a huge variety of bullet designs and weights to fit any situation you might find yourself in.   I am of the mind that a little extra speed is good in a bullet.

Olgo

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Re: Am I ok with carrying loaded with 10mm ammo?
« Reply #3 on: August 28, 2017, 06:55:11 PM »
Really? Even if I reduced the power?

Ok, I put the 10mm barrel back in and loaded it with Hornady 10mm 175 FlexLock instead of the Uw 10mm 200 XTP.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2017, 07:04:07 PM by Olgo »
How powerful is 10mm? Well, see those craters on the moon?

Rick R

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Re: Am I ok with carrying loaded with 10mm ammo?
« Reply #4 on: August 28, 2017, 08:02:16 PM »
If you get involved in a shooting there will be teams of lawyers trying to make their point to a judge and jury.  Probably at a criminal AND a civil trial. These guys if unchecked could make a S&W Mdl 10 with RNL ammo look heinous. But if you are in the right in a good community it will most probably not make it past the Grand Jury.

Avoid salacious ammo, carry reasonable rounds from a mainstream source in a reasonably stock gun. Be ready to explain any deviation or modification in reasonable terms.  If you shoot your G-29 better in .40 then be ready to say so.  Avoid sensational comments on social media. Our prosecutors aren't known for witch hunts, but don't go riding  a broom and wearing a pointy hat for no good reason.

Several agencies use or have used the 10mm, mine was one.  I live in a remote area with black bear, yotes and allegedly cougar.  I frequently carry my .44 Mtn Gun, or did till I purchased my SR1911 in 10mm.  Hornady factory 180gr XTPs at 1,200fps should work for aggressors of any species I might encounter.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2017, 08:06:21 PM by Rick R »
Hold my beer and watch this, Don't try this at home kids, Professional driver on a closed course...

sqlbullet

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Re: Am I ok with carrying loaded with 10mm ammo?
« Reply #5 on: August 29, 2017, 07:28:06 AM »
Rick R makes great points.

If you shoot better with ammo at 40 S&W power levels, then find 10mm factory ammo that is loaded to that power level, rather than a caliber conversion barrel.  But, this also does depend a lot on the jurisdiction in question.

Above all, think ahead and be ready to clearly articulate why you made the gear choices you did. 

Spudmeister

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Re: Am I ok with carrying loaded with 10mm ammo?
« Reply #6 on: August 29, 2017, 08:22:51 AM »
The other thing depends if you and your family survived the gunfight or not.  We tend to put the cart before the horse as it makes better conversation.  Far better to master the skill that will keep you and your family alive before sweating out the rest.  If you and your family are dead the law does not matter.  No doubt your opponents are hoping you are worrying about the legal issues instead of the survival ones. 
« Last Edit: August 29, 2017, 08:57:49 AM by Spudmeister »

Soldier of The Law

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Re: Am I ok with carrying loaded with 10mm ammo?
« Reply #7 on: August 29, 2017, 06:49:25 PM »
 I respectfully disagree with the above comments. Don't believe everything you read from AYOOB.

If you are legal to carry and it's a good shoot, it's good. End of story.

I'd suggest that someone carry what they can make fast and accurate hits with. A hit with a 380 will be more effective than a miss with a 10mm.

sqlbullet

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Re: Am I ok with carrying loaded with 10mm ammo?
« Reply #8 on: August 30, 2017, 07:02:11 AM »
If we listened to Ayoob, we wouldn't carry a 10!

Where I live and work, I carry reloads.  Another big "no-no" according to the risk averse.

If I were traveling through Illinois on I-80, I would probably make different selections.

However, Spudmeister and Soldier of The Law both echo what I have said here many times:  First win the fight for your life!  Carry what you can shoot well.

And, that advice is a little worthless without some idea what "shooting well" means in a defensive situation.  I define it like this:  El Presidente.  Learn it, love it.  Forces you to train two shots on target, transitions, reload and follow-up shots.  If you can shoot this in 8-10 seconds you probably good.  Have a timer, analyze your time to first shot, your splits, your transition times and your reload times.

Finally, add some stress.  Get a shooting buddy and shoot dueling drills.  A tree is nice, but even 6-10 clay pigeons, 3-5 each, works.  First one to shoot all the pigeons wins.  I remember well the first time I did this.  In no-stress shooting I was outshooting the guy I was with on every shot.  Groups at 15 yards to milk jugs at 100 yards.  Then he said "Lets shoot some pigeons head to head at 5 yards".  We set up six, three for me and three for him.  I called start.  He gets his first pigeon, my adrenaline surged and I shot all 15 rounds from my witness for two clay pigeons...at five yards! 

I now own a dueling tree and rarely loose in head to head shooting.  But it took time and practice to get to where that stress doesn't bother me.

Carry what you can shoot is definitely the best advice.

Rick R

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Re: Am I ok with carrying loaded with 10mm ammo?
« Reply #9 on: August 30, 2017, 07:11:25 AM »
I deleted my last post as too wordy.  ;D

IMHO Your social media content is more important than your gun /ammo choices in a post shooting environment.  Don't rub testosterone over every post you make.

Carry the gun you like, get training, practice like a sqlbullet  :P
Hold my beer and watch this, Don't try this at home kids, Professional driver on a closed course...

Soldier of The Law

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Re: Am I ok with carrying loaded with 10mm ammo?
« Reply #10 on: August 30, 2017, 12:26:46 PM »
I do like the El Presidente but prefer a drill with more movement. I'll do this drill monthly on a VTac target.

Start at the target. At the buzzer run to the 25yd line.

Fire 5 rds standing then 5 rds kneeling. SH 2H grip.

Sprint to the 15yd line and repeat.

Sprint to the 7yd line and fire 5 rds SH only then transfer to the OH and fire 5rds OH only.

Time plus misses=score.

A zone hits are +0
All other hits are +1 and misses are +5

I consistently score close to 40 using a G21G4.

We'll also load each other's mags with varying rounds and dummies or empty brass to facility condition 1 and 2 clearance drills.

Total live rounds needed for the drill is 30.

Olgo

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Re: Am I ok with carrying loaded with 10mm ammo?
« Reply #11 on: August 30, 2017, 12:46:00 PM »
SotL, I'm 67 years old and disabled. I'm gonna have to skip all that.   :-[

But don't worry I had practice with my G29. My groups stay inside 4".
How powerful is 10mm? Well, see those craters on the moon?

sqlbullet

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Re: Am I ok with carrying loaded with 10mm ammo?
« Reply #12 on: August 30, 2017, 07:52:13 PM »
Run an el presidente but start facing the target then.  No movement needed beyond simple target transitions.

my_old_glock

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inv136

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Re: Am I ok with carrying loaded with 10mm ammo?
« Reply #14 on: September 02, 2017, 12:04:36 PM »
The phrase "better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6" comes to mind. I figure as long as the shooting is justified, it doesn't matter if you used a 10mm or a .44 magnum or even a 12 gauge shotgun slug. Even if it ever went to trial, a decent attorney would be able to get a number of expert witnesses that would be able to explain to the jury how most common handgun cartridges (9mm, .40, .45 ACP) are inadequate for stopping power against human aggressors. There are many documented instances where 9mm/.45 have failed to stop an attacker.