Author Topic: A 10mm video review I can stand  (Read 545 times)

sqlbullet

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A 10mm video review I can stand
« on: September 13, 2017, 10:10:49 AM »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBkjdutVmFA

This is a pretty balanced comparison of the 10mm as defense round to the 45 ACP.  The author correctly identifies the 10mm as more powerful, even significantly so.  He demonstrates that the additional power doesn't impact his speed or accuracy when shooting plates.

He gets into the details of the "Fish" case in AZ and debunks a good bit of the FUDD surrounding that case and the 10mm.

And the real world test against a simulated thoracic cavity was one of the best I have seen.  And again shows the 10mm to be a markedly better performer, though the author seemed to miss out on some aspects of the better performance.

The only real misses in the video as far as I am concerned were this:

1. Though the 10mm thoroughly destroyed both simulated lungs, which would have lead to twice the exsanguination of the assailant, he only notes the performance as marginally better.  I attribute this to not fully considering how much lungs will bleed, and the importance of bleed rate in winning a defensive encounter.

2.  He does a third test with the 45 using 230 grain ball ammo, and extols its very valid virtues as a defensive round given it's penetration.  However, he does not afford the 10mm a similar test using 200 grain FMJ or TC ammo.  He says that the tests could "gone on forever", and I agree you have to draw a line at some point, but the line should have been drawn either before the 230 grain test, or after the 10mm had it's chance with 200 grain ammo.

3.  He predominately uses 185 grain JHP 45 ACP vs 180 grain JHP 10mm.  This gives a velocity advantage to the 45 and a sectional density advantage to the 10mm.  A more "fair" approach IMHO would be to compare 180 grain 10mm to 230 grain 45 ACP as these share the same sectional density.  Using the same weight seems like an apples to apples comparison, but it isn't.

4.  The author alludes to the additional cost of ammo at the local gun store.  I can't argue that 10mm ammo will be more at the local gunstore, but who buys ammo in large quantities at a local store, unless it is on sale.  It is 2017, buy your ammo online.  And if you shop, that price advantage becomes very, very small.

Despite these items, the video was informative and accurate.  One of the better 10mm comparison vids I have seen.

The_Shadow

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Re: A 10mm video review I can stand
« Reply #1 on: September 13, 2017, 12:47:48 PM »
Yes he did a great job with his video comparison... 8)
The "10mm" I'm Packin', Has The Bullets Wackin', Smakin' & The Slide is Rackin' & Jackin'!
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4949shooter

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Re: A 10mm video review I can stand
« Reply #2 on: September 13, 2017, 04:34:56 PM »
Agree completely. I noticed #2 as well when I saw this video a month or two ago.

Otherwise Harrel does a nice job, and seems to prefer 10mm in some of his other videos.

FWP

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Re: A 10mm video review I can stand
« Reply #3 on: September 13, 2017, 07:09:16 PM »
I watch a lot of his videos regarding different weapons and calibers. He is fair and practical. He is one of the few YouTube guys I like.

SA4044

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Re: A 10mm video review I can stand
« Reply #4 on: September 13, 2017, 07:48:56 PM »
Well thought out and well done!

Spudmeister

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Re: A 10mm video review I can stand
« Reply #5 on: September 13, 2017, 08:25:27 PM »
This was the first Paul Harnell video I've seen.  Starting out it seemed like he was going nowhere and just wasting everybody's time.  But it was very well done, well thought out and professionally presented.  I am impressed.  No, he did not cover everything and he was not speaking to us but to a less informed audience.  And he was limiting the topic to personal protection.  That is about the beginning and end of the 45 acp but barely the opening act of the 10mm. 

So I say, well done!  Thanks so much for the link.  Mr. Harnell does good work.

Sonny10MM

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Re: A 10mm video review I can stand
« Reply #6 on: September 14, 2017, 07:09:08 AM »
Thanks for posting. First video of his I have ever seen and I enjoyed his review of the Miami FBI Shootout that lead to the adoption of the 10MM although he didn't mention that. I hit the subscribed button as I'd like to see more of his videos.

FWP

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Re: A 10mm video review I can stand
« Reply #7 on: September 14, 2017, 10:19:16 AM »
BTW does anyone know where I can get one of those high tech fleece bullet stops?  ;D

sqlbullet

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Re: A 10mm video review I can stand
« Reply #8 on: September 14, 2017, 10:31:10 AM »
BTW does anyone know where I can get one of those high tech fleece bullet stops?  ;D

My second favorite store...JoAnn Fabrics

FWP

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Re: A 10mm video review I can stand
« Reply #9 on: September 14, 2017, 07:07:37 PM »
OK. I gotta have one of those.

Patriot

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Re: A 10mm video review I can stand
« Reply #10 on: September 15, 2017, 08:23:56 AM »
Any serious gunowner should already understand the difference between the two. I still run into .45 acp fan boys that work in gun shops that will swear the .45 acp is faster, more powerful and all around better than 10mm. Just the other day I was at Bass Pro and the guy working the counter says "what does more damage, a train at 30 mph or a bus at 60 mph? The .45 acp is a train, the 10mm is a bus."

All of these gun manufacturers that pump out 1911's in 10mm are part of the problem. Low capacity in an outdated platform. And Sig, whom could have made one hell of a statement with a high capacity 10mm, made the 220 with an 8 round mag capacity. The big name companies (except Glock) do a disservice to the 10mm.

A Witness Elite Stock 10mm can be found for around $750, holds 15 rounds, is DA/SA and has a safety. It's cheaper, more reliable, safer, has almost double the capacity and can handle the high powered stuff. Why anyone still buys the Sig or any 1911 in .45 acp or 10mm is a question I cannot find an answer to.

Spudmeister

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Re: A 10mm video review I can stand
« Reply #11 on: September 15, 2017, 08:30:27 AM »
So maybe I spoke glowingly too soon.  Paul Harrel posted this video yesterday

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydwXJ2yhfnU

He totally missed the point and the power of the 10mm platform.  Honestly, he seems a smart guy, but can't tell day from night if he really thinks the 40 and 10 are really similar in power. The fact that a 150 HP Mustang and a 450 HP Mustang will both do 60 MPH is a meaningless fact.  If he loves that 40 that is fine.  But to deny the power of the 10mm by omission is very dishonest. 
« Last Edit: September 15, 2017, 08:32:42 AM by Spudmeister »

sqlbullet

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Re: A 10mm video review I can stand
« Reply #12 on: September 15, 2017, 09:16:31 AM »
You must have watched a different video than you posted.

At the end of the video he makes all the right points.

1.  Shame on federal for marketing 40 S&W ammo as 10mm
2.  You can through a lot of money away on ammo loaded in 10mm cases, paying a premium, but only get 40 S&W velocity
3.  The 10mm is a "lot" more powerful than the 40, if you get actual 10mm ammo
4.  Caveat Emptor

His biggest problem is he seems only shoot what he can buy at local gun stores.  He needs to order up some Underwood.

Spudmeister

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Re: A 10mm video review I can stand
« Reply #13 on: September 15, 2017, 09:58:56 AM »
You must have watched a different video than you posted.

At the end of the video he makes all the right points.

1.  Shame on federal for marketing 40 S&W ammo as 10mm
2.  You can through a lot of money away on ammo loaded in 10mm cases, paying a premium, but only get 40 S&W velocity
3.  The 10mm is a "lot" more powerful than the 40, if you get actual 10mm ammo
4.  Caveat Emptor

His biggest problem is he seems only shoot what he can buy at local gun stores.  He needs to order up some Underwood.

Nope.  Correct video.  But his examples reveal only a small amount of the differences in "power".  It would not take much research to find out the differences are (or... to be fair... can be) enormous.  If comparing ammo for defense I can see where ammo makers take into account the application and tone down 10mm so the average guy can fully control it.  But to suggest their capabilities even approach one another is not correct and that is my point... though I may have put it better at first.

SA4044

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Re: A 10mm video review I can stand
« Reply #14 on: September 15, 2017, 11:31:30 AM »
You must have watched a different video than you posted.

At the end of the video he makes all the right points.

1.  Shame on federal for marketing 40 S&W ammo as 10mm
2.  You can through a lot of money away on ammo loaded in 10mm cases, paying a premium, but only get 40 S&W velocity
3.  The 10mm is a "lot" more powerful than the 40, if you get actual 10mm ammo
4.  Caveat Emptor

His biggest problem is he seems only shoot what he can buy at local gun stores.  He needs to order up some Underwood.


I couldn't agree with you more! It would be interesting to see an Underwood 40 and 10 go head to head. I would hope there would be significant differences. I carry Underwood every day in my G29. I have never shot anything other than 10mm from Underwood so I have nothing to compare it to but the Underwood that I carry (165gr JHP (Gold Dot)) has a pretty good bark to it. On that, I never considered the 10mm to have anything close to a prohibitive recoil no matter what I was shooting.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2017, 12:08:44 PM by sqlbullet »