Author Topic: 9mm Ammo Factory/Commercial Ammo pulldown  (Read 72015 times)

The_Shadow

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9mm Ammo Factory/Commercial Ammo pulldown
« on: November 21, 2012, 04:36:00 PM »
Cartridge is from Ammo Manufacture: Underwood 9mm +P+ 115gr Speer Gold Dot JHP
Ballistics Information: 9mm +P+
Muzzle Velocity: 1400 fps
Muzzle Energy: 501 ft. lbs
Pictures: Before/After disassembly:
Brass Make/Headstamp: Star Line - Brass
Bullet Make/Weight/Construction/Info; Length 0.5260"/Dia. 0.3550": Speer Gold Dot 115gr. JHP actual weight 114.6 grains
C.O.A.L.: 1.0580"
Primer: Brass color
Case: Diameter 0.3865" Crimp Diameter 0.3760" Length 0.7490"
Powder Description/Positive ID/Type/Charge Weight:   Auto Comp 7.0 grains
(smaller flattened ball powder than LS silvery color suggest Auto Comp powder) Actual test confirmed AutoComp.
Tested January 27th 2013 Velocity 1447 fps as tested from the Ruger P-85, primer slightly flattened Case expanded 0.3930"
Replaced the with known AutoComp Underwood 115gr +P+ Gold Dot
Tested February 22nd 2014 by ICEAA Limited 4.75" 1493 FPS/ 569 LBS



Powder compared to LongShot outside the pan

Closeup view of powder from the +P+ 9mm

As weighed


Here is a new picture and side by side comparison of UW's powder and AutoComp

Modified to reflect actually testing.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2014, 06:36:06 PM by The_Shadow »
The "10mm" I'm Packin', Has The Bullets Wackin', Smakin' & The Slide is Rackin' & Jackin'!
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Intercooler

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Re: Underwood 9mm / 115gr Speer Gold Dot JHP
« Reply #1 on: November 21, 2012, 04:45:22 PM »
I thought someone said it was a Winchester powder. Let me look again.

Yondering

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Re: Underwood 9mm / 115gr Speer Gold Dot JHP
« Reply #2 on: November 21, 2012, 05:23:20 PM »
That powder is similar in appearance to WSF (looks like the same powder as used in the 124gr +P and +P+ loads), but my attempts to duplicate with WSF indicates that's not it.

I'm a little concerned with all the guessing about powders lately; some of these powders may be quite different than the guesses here. Attempting to duplicate some of these loads with the wrong powder could be dangerous.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2012, 05:24:54 PM by Yondering »

Intercooler

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Re: Underwood 9mm / 115gr Speer Gold Dot JHP
« Reply #3 on: November 21, 2012, 05:43:10 PM »
Part of why I don't reload I guess.

The_Shadow

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Re: Underwood 9mm / 115gr Speer Gold Dot JHP
« Reply #4 on: November 21, 2012, 05:50:35 PM »
This one is a mystery still ???  In the side by side comparison the size of the kernnels are different from the larger LongShot powders so it is not LongShot.  Reviewing many loading tables and profiles for the given powder weights, bullet weights, I need to investigate the Winchester Auto Comp to compare that one to.  I was hoping someone could post a picture if they have some.
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The_Shadow

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Re: Underwood 9mm / 115gr Speer Gold Dot JHP
« Reply #5 on: November 22, 2012, 04:25:18 PM »
These are some of the powders that interest me in this load data to study further...
(smaller flattened ball powder than LS silvery color ?? 7.0 grains)


Hodgdon's 2012 Annual shows regular pressure loads for the 115 gr JHP being shoved by:
6.0grain load of LongShot @ 1203 fps 32,300 PSI  (kernnels are larger than what was found inside)
5.7grain load of WSF @ 1165 fps 32,900 PSI
5.6grain load of Auto Comp @ 1161 fps 32,500 PSI
7.0grain load of HS-6 @ 1234 fps 29,400 CUP
5.1grain load of 231 @ 1167 fps 28,100 CUP
The "10mm" I'm Packin', Has The Bullets Wackin', Smakin' & The Slide is Rackin' & Jackin'!
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REDLINE

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Re: Underwood 9mm / 115gr Speer Gold Dot JHP
« Reply #6 on: November 22, 2012, 06:01:24 PM »
It looks to me to not be too far off from about four of the Ramshot powders shown here -
http://www.precisionreloading.net/?page_id=2187
Gun Control?  Oh yes, the theory that becoming a victim is somehow morally superior to defending yourself & your family.  Makes perfect sense.

The_Shadow

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Re: Underwood 9mm / 115gr Speer Gold Dot JHP
« Reply #7 on: November 22, 2012, 08:42:59 PM »
9mm +P and +P+ Cartridges: Winchester & Remington Win
 
These rounds should have more pop than standard-pressure 9mm Parabellum cartridges, and in three cases we found that to be true - the winners shoot on par with .357 Magnums.

The 9mm Parabellum cartridge (commonly called 9mm Luger in the US) has traditionally been loaded more lightly on this side of the Atlantic than in Europe. The Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturing Institute (SAAMI) has set a pressure ceiling for standard pressure 9mm Para at 35,000 pounds per square inch (psi). By contrast, NATO pressure ceiling is 42,000 psi. In-between U.S. standard pressure 9mm and NATO spec, we have two options. 9mm +P has a SAAMI pressure ceiling of 38,500 psi. There's no SAAMI spec for 9mm +P+; that's just a way of saying its pressures exceed +P standards.
http://www.gun-tests.com/issues/17_3/features/5231-1.html
Edited to add what got cut off...and put the link back in...
« Last Edit: November 23, 2012, 12:47:12 PM by The_Shadow »
The "10mm" I'm Packin', Has The Bullets Wackin', Smakin' & The Slide is Rackin' & Jackin'!
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The_Shadow

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Re: Underwood 9mm / 115gr Speer Gold Dot JHP
« Reply #8 on: November 22, 2012, 08:54:19 PM »
Two Delta wrote...
I finally got out to the chrono with some 9's using Winchesters new autocomp.I was surprised to find that it could make major without signs of high pressure. Anyway here is the load I came up with.
 
Sti Trubore 9mm one piece comp/barrel.
Mixed once fired brass
Winchester small pistol primers
7.0gr. Winchester Autocomp
124gr. RN. Precision Delta
C.O.A.L.  1.170
1346.3 FPS. average of 5 shot group.
extreme spread 16.2 FPS.
166.904 PF.
 
It shot very well with little dot lift if any. I think I'll use this for a while because its available and its cheap compared to vit. It's not smoky or flashy but I don't know how dirty it is yet.
http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=83231

While I suspected Auto Comp originally without even seeing it visually...Now with these results with a 124gr bullet I would think that the 115 GD could achieve the velocity goal of 1400fps.  So I still search for either some Auto Comp or a picture for comparison!  Someone should have some to take a picture and post!   ???
The "10mm" I'm Packin', Has The Bullets Wackin', Smakin' & The Slide is Rackin' & Jackin'!
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Yondering

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Re: Underwood 9mm / 115gr Speer Gold Dot JHP
« Reply #9 on: November 23, 2012, 11:11:31 AM »
Shadow, from the data in that last post, AutoComp makes sense for Underwood's 9mm loads. The 124gr +P+ has 6.6 gr of powder and is advertised at 1300 fps, so 7.0gr in the load above at ~1340 sounds about right.

Good find.

The_Shadow

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Re: Underwood 9mm / 115gr Speer Gold Dot JHP
« Reply #10 on: November 23, 2012, 01:06:02 PM »
I still need to see the Auto Comp powder to verify what I'm suspecting unless Kevin Underwood wants to share the actual powder type...

I was just reviewing the Firearms Tactical Institute data for 9mm, 9mm+p & 9mm +P+ here:
http://www.firearmstactical.com/ammo_data/9mm.htm
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The_Shadow

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Re: Underwood 9mm / 115gr Speer Gold Dot JHP
« Reply #11 on: November 25, 2012, 08:01:42 AM »
Well here is what I've got on the Winchester AutoComp powder from a good friend...


Not saying it is what Underwood is using but working up and testing could show some results to compare.
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Intercooler

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Re: Underwood 9mm / 115gr Speer Gold Dot JHP
« Reply #12 on: November 25, 2012, 09:32:26 AM »
Crazy looking stuff. Does it look like "the stuff"?

REDLINE

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Re: Underwood 9mm / 115gr Speer Gold Dot JHP
« Reply #13 on: November 25, 2012, 10:16:24 AM »
Have you been able to rule out Longshot 100%?

It looks like Longshot as much as anything else to me.  I just looked at my Longshot powder again to compare and can't tell any difference (though I have no reference toward powder flake size in your picture).

Seems also like a 6.5-7.0 grain charge weight would be about right too.  Plus I wouldn't doubt the velocities achieved if it was Longshot being used.

To be clear, I am purely speculating.  Thoughts?
Gun Control?  Oh yes, the theory that becoming a victim is somehow morally superior to defending yourself & your family.  Makes perfect sense.

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Re: Underwood 9mm / 115gr Speer Gold Dot JHP
« Reply #14 on: November 25, 2012, 10:50:13 AM »