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Author Topic: New test full power 10mm with spring swaps  (Read 2010 times)

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Intercooler

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New test full power 10mm with spring swaps
« on: August 11, 2012, 08:51:18 PM »
Time for a new test I have wanted to do for a while now. Recoil spring changes on full power 10mm ammo. SwampFox (Mike Willard) said a weak for the load spring can make a 50-75 FPS difference due to unlocking. With my Hunter I think it come with a 12lb and 14lb spring. I will try those in the Match with Delta-Lite Underwood 180gr reloads that tested in the 1250 FPS range and see if it proves out. Good test?
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Yondering

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Re: New test full power 10mm with spring swaps
« Reply #1 on: August 12, 2012, 12:34:50 AM »
Willard was referring to a Glock. The Witness is more like a 1911, where the hammer spring and firing pin stop affect unlocking a lot more than the recoil spring. Slide mass makes a big difference too, but of course is a lot harder to change.
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Intercooler

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Re: New test full power 10mm with spring swaps
« Reply #2 on: August 12, 2012, 05:18:36 AM »
So do you think a 12lb or 14lb will show any signs in the Witness? I don't have a Glock to test with  ;)
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MrRedbull616

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Re: New test full power 10mm with spring swaps
« Reply #3 on: August 12, 2012, 06:39:17 AM »
IMO you'd need to shoot about 10rds with each type and use the avg velocity. Factory ammo varies too much to get an accurate reading with less rds. ...for what your doing.   Can also look at extreme spread.


I have to do this test myself again. Going to do with glock 20 with factory spring, 24lb ISM, 22lb wolff and 24lb wolff.  (wolff of course is a round spring and the factory and ISM are flat springs)

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Intercooler

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Re: New test full power 10mm with spring swaps
« Reply #4 on: August 12, 2012, 07:13:34 AM »
You have the Glocks to do it with. You need a stock spring (18lb?) or even lower with some full house ammo and then change to the 24lb.

I burn up ammo anyway so I will try in the Witness with the 12lb and 22lb. I will do ten 180's@1250 FPS as a baseline and then ten with the 22lb spring. If that gives nothing to mention I will go to the 1600 FPS 155's from Underwood and that should tell us something.
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Intercooler

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Re: New test full power 10mm with spring swaps
« Reply #5 on: August 12, 2012, 07:14:13 AM »
BTW... Did the ammo arrive?
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The_Shadow

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Re: New test full power 10mm with spring swaps
« Reply #6 on: August 12, 2012, 07:48:19 AM »
This person (drsjr1969 ) is also testing various ammo from a Stock Glock 20. He has several videos posted.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlONYodFh2c&feature=share

Here is his spread sheet
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AjsXvXEryDJjdFhsRUcwSHRUcktCMmhOMTVFa25xa1E#gid=0
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Intercooler

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Re: New test full power 10mm with spring swaps
« Reply #7 on: August 12, 2012, 07:52:42 AM »
   Yea. David has an all stock Glock and his numbers have been different than mine on some things lately. Part of why I wanted to do this for my own info. An increased spring I think would help him but if it is the original I bet it is wore out pretty bad by now hurting things more.
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The_Shadow

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Re: New test full power 10mm with spring swaps
« Reply #8 on: August 12, 2012, 08:58:35 AM »
I sent David another personal e-mail invite to the forum, I posted an invite on his Facebook page sometime back.  The springs could be worn some but still stroking along!

He mentioned about Kevin's NEW 155gr offering @ 1500 fps in the video and it looks like they are running as advertised.
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Intercooler

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Re: New test full power 10mm with spring swaps
« Reply #9 on: August 13, 2012, 04:37:40 PM »
I did this test today too. I had two low power springs (11lbs/12lbs) and decided to just do the 11lb spring:

Underwood 180gr FMJ (Reloads) out of the Match with a 22lb spring as a baseline: 1269, 1279, 1246, 1262, 1294, 1270. Average = 1270 FPS/ 644.53 LBS.

Underwood 180gr FMJ (Reloads) out of the Match with a 11lb spring: 1263, 1241, 1272, 1249, 1229, 1276, 1246, 1272, 1231. Average = 1253.22 FPS/ 627.62 LBS.

Pretty much debunked the theory in a Match. Possibly different in a Glock.

I still wanted to do worse case so did Underwood 155's.

22lb spring: 1568, 1598, 1553. Average = 1573 FPS/ 851.44 LBS.
11lb spring: 1618, 1629, 1599. Average = 1615.33 FPS/ 897.88 LBS.

Yea. Blew this one out of the water it appears.
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The_Shadow

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Re: New test full power 10mm with spring swaps
« Reply #10 on: August 13, 2012, 08:19:02 PM »
Sounds like the EAA runs the same with either spring velocity wise, how were the ejections with the lighter springs?   ???
I am not familure with the way the EAA's work with regards to recoil and lock up.
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Intercooler

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Re: New test full power 10mm with spring swaps
« Reply #11 on: August 13, 2012, 08:20:50 PM »
I didn't pay close attention but I thought some of those 155's with the 11lb spring were closer.


If Mr.Redbull does a test like this with a much reduced spring it may tell us the other part of the story (Glocks).

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Yondering

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Re: New test full power 10mm with spring swaps
« Reply #12 on: August 13, 2012, 09:56:05 PM »
Quote from: Intercooler on August 13, 2012, 04:37:40 PM

Pretty much debunked the theory in a Match. Possibly different in a Glock.


You didn't "debunk" anything. Nobody said a stiffer recoil spring would change the velocity in a Witness, or in a 1911. You misunderstood the application.
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Intercooler

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Re: New test full power 10mm with spring swaps
« Reply #13 on: August 13, 2012, 11:09:43 PM »
Mike Willard stated that he saw differences in velocities same for Buffalo Bore. Yes debunked for the Witness but can't speak to the rest.
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sqlbullet

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Re: New test full power 10mm with spring swaps
« Reply #14 on: August 14, 2012, 07:35:24 AM »
Pretty sure Mr. Willard was speaking about Glock pistols when he made that statement.  I don't have time to go track down the info and confirm that.

But, regardless of what he made the statement about, if he applied it to 1911 designs we was certainly wrong, and I believe wrong about the CZ/Witness design.  The only way to slow unlocking in these guns I beleive is to increase the slide mass or barrel mass or mess with the geometry of the hammer and firing pin stop.

Ned Christensen found no difference in unlock timing and he went to extremes in his test.  By extremes I mean firing without a recoil spring.  Unlock was no faster.

The Glock has a different geometry, and different, though derivative, locking system.  Spring rates may have an impact on Glocks.
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