Author Topic: Grizzly 200gr WFNGC  (Read 2344 times)

Texashogman

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Grizzly 200gr WFNGC
« on: July 14, 2017, 06:59:56 AM »
so I was at Sportsmans Warehouse yesterday and was just looking at any 10mm that might be available (as they usually are out of stock of all 10mm)

I stumbled upon a bnox of Grizzly 200gr WFNGC box of 20 bullets for $14.99

they use starline brass and the Sportsmans website shows 1250fps (an I'm assuming that is from a 5" test barrel) http://www.sportsmanswarehouse.com/sportsmans/Grizzly-Handgun-Ammo/productDetail/Handgun-Ammunition/prod99999043746/cat100130

I looked on Grizzly's website this morning and they have a 155, 180, and 200 grain JHP  ( which look to be Hornady XTP bullets ) and a 200gr FMJFP ----BUT no 200gr WFN load listed on their website


anyone know if the 200wfn load is either a new load or an old discontinued load????   from looking at their cast bullets for sale, they say they use LBT molds, Beratooth bullets has a 200gr WFNGC and he uses an LBT mold also, so I'm guessing it's the same bullet

Grizzly does not say what the hardness of this WFN is anywhere


anyone have any info on this load???? seems like it is definitely a "full power" load as it's speed at 1250 seems really hot


just for S&G I bought a box to see how they shoot and I will chrony them too from my 6" RIA when I get a chance, but it may be several  weeks till I can get back to the range
« Last Edit: July 14, 2017, 07:02:36 AM by Texashogman »
RIA 52000, PVL chest holster, Montana 200WFN

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sqlbullet

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Re: Grizzly 200gr WFNGC
« Reply #1 on: July 14, 2017, 07:23:37 AM »
I would guess it is an old load.  Powder coat is all the rage these days.

Texashogman

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Re: Grizzly 200gr WFNGC
« Reply #2 on: July 14, 2017, 07:36:42 AM »
I would guess it is an old load.  Powder coat is all the rage these days.

funny I can't find anything, anywhere on the net about it, I would think if it was old then someone-somewhere would have some sort of internet info on it (test info etc)

if it was new, you would think Grizzly would have info it on their website

as far as 10mm 200 or 220 WFN "hard cast"(BHN 20 or more) hunting bullet with PC , I haven't seen anyone that sells them yet, pb and GC yes, but coated, no (though I may be missing a source I haven't found yet) ---  Montanna is running a special test batch for me right now that are hi-tek coated though ---several sources sell plain base and gas check 200gr WFN of BHN 20-22 though

I wish I could find a 200gr WFN with an 80% or better meaplat with just a bit softer BHN than 20-22 (something like 16-18)--- seems like all the 16 BHN 200gr are more of a TC style than WFN ---just doesn't make sense to me to buy all of the casting equipment when It would take me years to recoup my costs if ever (as I have no "free" source of lead so I have to buy that too)


I'm going to shoot an e-mail to Grizzly to see if they have any info on it
RIA 52000, PVL chest holster, Montana 200WFN

5 dollars waiting on 5 cents

sqlbullet

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Re: Grizzly 200gr WFNGC
« Reply #3 on: July 14, 2017, 09:31:32 AM »
Buy a few bullets and anneal them and see if the hardness changes.

If not, they are linotype.

But, chances are they are water dropped lead with about 3% antimony and 1-2% tin.  If so, heating them to 400° for an hour and letting them air-cool will give you bullets that are a 10-11 BHN.  For a 17 BHN, heat them to that temp, then dump them in 80-100° water.  They should come out hardened some, but not a full 22 BHN.

But, be aware, that they will continue to harden with time.  I tested batches 24 months later that started out 16-17 BHN and they were 20-22 BHN after 24 months.

The only way I know of to get a bullet made from this common and cheap alloy to stabilize at 16-17 BHN is to cast it in a hot mold from 700-750° lead, air cool and age.    They will test 11-12 the day after casting, and will harden over 30-60 days to 15 or so.  After two years, they still are 16-17 BHN.  If you cast with lead cooler than 700° they won't get past 10-11 BHN.

Source of this is two different children's science fair projects.  The first one was on the effects of different heat treatments and the results and methodology is at the link below.  The second built on that and test the age hardness of the original test samples after 24 months, but I have not put the data online cause I am busy or lazy.

http://fellingfamily.net/isolead

Overkill338

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Re: Grizzly 200gr WFNGC
« Reply #4 on: July 14, 2017, 10:00:36 AM »
That's on par with Underwood, I wouldn't call it "really hot"
The 10mm Auto, created by Zeus, replaced Thor's hammer, perfected by Jeff Cooper, and endorsed by Larry Vickers AND the Nuge! It exudes awesome! :D

Overkill338

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Re: Grizzly 200gr WFNGC
« Reply #5 on: July 14, 2017, 10:02:46 AM »
I shoot 200 grainers from my G29 that are rated at 1250.
The 10mm Auto, created by Zeus, replaced Thor's hammer, perfected by Jeff Cooper, and endorsed by Larry Vickers AND the Nuge! It exudes awesome! :D

Texashogman

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Re: Grizzly 200gr WFNGC
« Reply #6 on: July 14, 2017, 10:18:28 AM »
That's on par with Underwood, I wouldn't call it "really hot"
well your chart shows them as "nuclear" loads and not "hot loads" so that would be "really hot" in my books

I would imagine they are still within saami specs, just on the max pressure side

they are probably not something I would shoot all the time, but for their purpose they are where they should be in my mind, I hope to find an accurate load around 1300 from my 6" when I get my WFN's later this month

 if the grizzly's are accurate then it would be a nice "factory" alternative for guys that don't reload and a back-up for guys that do
RIA 52000, PVL chest holster, Montana 200WFN

5 dollars waiting on 5 cents

Overkill338

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Re: Grizzly 200gr WFNGC
« Reply #7 on: July 14, 2017, 10:56:12 AM »
That's on par with Underwood, I wouldn't call it "really hot"
well your chart shows them as "nuclear" loads and not "hot loads" so that would be "really hot" in my books

I would imagine they are still within saami specs, just on the max pressure side

they are probably not something I would shoot all the time, but for their purpose they are where they should be in my mind, I hope to find an accurate load around 1300 from my 6" when I get my WFN's later this month

 if the grizzly's are accurate then it would be a nice "factory" alternative for guys that don't reload and a back-up for guys that do

I carry equal power loads for self protection. I carry the Nosler 200gr hollow points. Sometimes I switch it over to a 9x25 Dillon. I've always loved the 357 SIG round so the Dillon just makes me smile. 1550 fps from a 124 grain bullet from less than a 4" barrel.
The 10mm Auto, created by Zeus, replaced Thor's hammer, perfected by Jeff Cooper, and endorsed by Larry Vickers AND the Nuge! It exudes awesome! :D

Texashogman

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Re: Grizzly 200gr WFNGC
« Reply #8 on: July 14, 2017, 11:05:22 AM »
so back to the question posted--- does anyone know anything about the 200 WFNGC Grizzly Cartridge ammo?

if no one has seen any or tested any, I'm assuming it's a new offering ---- I'll test my box for speed and accuracy in a few weeks and report back
RIA 52000, PVL chest holster, Montana 200WFN

5 dollars waiting on 5 cents

Overkill338

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Re: Grizzly 200gr WFNGC
« Reply #9 on: July 14, 2017, 11:14:45 AM »
I'd say it's old or a sized down version of the .41's

http://www.grizzlycartridge.com/index.php?app=ecom&ns=prodshow&ref=CP41250&sid=ym0qwwf88ns1babf4o395d6jy6k3032h


I emailed Grizzly about them. I'll let ya know.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2017, 11:18:11 AM by Overkill338 »
The 10mm Auto, created by Zeus, replaced Thor's hammer, perfected by Jeff Cooper, and endorsed by Larry Vickers AND the Nuge! It exudes awesome! :D

The_Shadow

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Re: Grizzly 200gr WFNGC
« Reply #10 on: July 14, 2017, 11:37:46 AM »
We never had any of those Grizzly 10mm ammo cartridges with cast bullets to document...it would be nice to do a pull down documentation...However there are the DT, UW and BB that were done...

Buffalo Bore 220gr Hard Cast with Power Pistol Weight: 8.4 grains @ Muzzle Velocity: 1175 fps Muzzle Energy: 674 ft. lbs

Double Tap 200gr Wide Flat Nose Hard Cast Gas Checked with LongShot 8.2 grains @ Muzzle Velocity: 1300 fps Muzzle Energy: 750 ft. lbs

Double Tap 230gr Hard Cast with LongShot Weight: 7.2 grains @ Muzzle Velocity: 1120 fps Muzzle Energy: 612 ft. lbs

Underwood 200gr Hard Cast with LOVEX D037-01 11.6 grains @ Muzzle Velocity: 1250 fps Muzzle Energy: 694 ft. lbs
Underwood 220gr Hard Cast with LongShot Weight: 8.6 grains @ Muzzle Velocity: 1240 fps Muzzle Energy: 750 ft. lbs
Underwood 220gr Hard Cast(reduced) with LongShot Weight: 8.0 grains @ Muzzle Velocity: 1240 fps Muzzle Energy: 750 ft. lbs ???

Underwood 220gr Hard Cast with IMR800X 8.4 grains @ Muzzle Velocity: 1200 fps Muzzle Energy: 703 ft. lbs
Underwood 220gr Cast WFN with LongShot  8.4 grains @ Muzzle Velocity: 1237 fps Muzzle Energy: 747 ft. lbs

The "10mm" I'm Packin', Has The Bullets Wackin', Smakin' & The Slide is Rackin' & Jackin'!
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Texashogman

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Grizzly 200gr WFNGC pulldown
« Reply #11 on: July 15, 2017, 07:21:25 AM »
I'll have to attach pictures some other way later, as the files are too large from my phone--gotta figure out how to re-size them--I used to use Photobucket, but we all know the deal with their recent changes

Here are the details---
Grizzly Cartridge Company 10mm auto 200gr WFNGC- factory speed listed is 1250fps from unknown barrel length (I have sent a request for info to Grizzly)


*Overall length ranges from 1.243" to 1.251" (I think they are shooting for 1.250" as about 75% of them were 1.247-1.250")
*The brass case is new star-line brass with a silver colored primer-- I will note that their loading equipment is setting the primers in too hard/deep; as the edge of the primers is slightly flattened (lost it's round edge) and you can see almost a concave area near the middle of the primer where the machine is trying to press the primer too deep
*The bullet is indeed a "Hard-cast" bullet, it is very hard but I have no real way to test its hardness--it will not mark with a fingernail but it does appear to mark about the same as as 20-22bhn similar bullet with a punch
*It measures .401" just in front of the case mouth, BUT when pulled with a kinetic puller it measured .400" behind where the case mouth was crimped so it appears they are using too hard of a factory taper crimp as to deform the bullet slightly (yes it took about 10 whacks with the puller hammer to get the bullet to unseat)
*The bullet measures .640" long and appears to have 2 lube grooves with NO lube in the grooves and no crimp groove,  it does  have a gas check crimped to the base
* the meaplat is approximately .300" (give or take)
*weight of the 1 sample pulled pullet was 199.7 grains with the gas check
* charge weight of the powder was 8.5grains of what looks to be longshot powder

I do not currently have a tested MV as I have not yet shot any--when I do it will be from a 6" RIA barrel and I will report back

I have sent a request for information to Grizzly asking them what "hardness" the bullet is, what length their test barrel was, and if this is a new or old offering as it is not on their website right now.

For reference, I bought the box off the shelf at my local Sportsmans Warehouse for $14.99+tax for a box of 20
« Last Edit: July 15, 2017, 07:41:33 AM by Texashogman »
RIA 52000, PVL chest holster, Montana 200WFN

5 dollars waiting on 5 cents

Overkill338

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Re: Grizzly 200gr WFNGC
« Reply #12 on: July 15, 2017, 08:03:24 AM »
The reply I got from grizzly was they are on Maternity Leave.
The 10mm Auto, created by Zeus, replaced Thor's hammer, perfected by Jeff Cooper, and endorsed by Larry Vickers AND the Nuge! It exudes awesome! :D

Overkill338

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Re: Grizzly 200gr WFNGC
« Reply #13 on: July 15, 2017, 10:14:26 AM »
I downloaded an app called "Photo Resizer". It's allowed me to post here.

But sometimes you can view your pic on your phone, screenshot it, and crop it. Then post.
The 10mm Auto, created by Zeus, replaced Thor's hammer, perfected by Jeff Cooper, and endorsed by Larry Vickers AND the Nuge! It exudes awesome! :D

Overkill338

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Re: Grizzly 200gr WFNGC
« Reply #14 on: July 17, 2017, 12:58:22 PM »
even screen shot still comes up with 858KB

sorry I guess no pictures for me

Have you tried cropping or  the app I suggested?
The 10mm Auto, created by Zeus, replaced Thor's hammer, perfected by Jeff Cooper, and endorsed by Larry Vickers AND the Nuge! It exudes awesome! :D