Author Topic: Full power 10mm ammo  (Read 2766 times)

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RRMan03

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Full power 10mm ammo
« on: April 05, 2013, 05:28:05 PM »
Why are so many people scared of full power 10mm ammo. Is it the fact that most full power ammo is made by small manafactures? Or is it that everybody is so used to the lower power big factory loads that when shooting a  full power 10 the first thought is that was to strong its going to blow my gun up. Having shot 90% full power to nuclear power loads in a Glock 20 with all factory parts I have never had nothing except the smile every now and then. I do not shoot reloads. Having said that the few low powr loads I have shot caused more problems than the full power loads.My plastic guns may blow up someday with me holding on but if I wanted a 40 I would have bought one.

Intercooler

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Re: Full power 10mm ammo
« Reply #1 on: April 05, 2013, 05:49:42 PM »
It's just the Delta and Glock guys  8)

 :D

The_Shadow

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Re: Full power 10mm ammo
« Reply #2 on: April 05, 2013, 09:54:55 PM »
Well it depends on two things...What you consider full ballistic 10mm loads to be and Physics, you know that law, that if you break it, it will break something!  ;D
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RRMan03

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Re: Full power 10mm ammo
« Reply #3 on: April 05, 2013, 10:40:50 PM »
I am a Glock guy and would rather have my plastic Glock blow up on me than an all steel anything.At least the plastic will disapated some of the blast where steel just speeds it up.I just do not see anybody producing ammo that when fired from a good gun of todays manafacture would explode it. Way too much liability on that front. Good way to close your business I guess.LOL

Intercooler

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Re: Full power 10mm ammo
« Reply #4 on: April 06, 2013, 03:21:41 AM »
   As we have seen here though stuff happens and all don't get loaded right even if they try. I would send one of the Elite Ammo owners "extra specials" down my Hunter as a try just to see "what fer".  ;D

Some of the other models like the plastic guns I would feel like this though


pacapcop

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Re: Full power 10mm ammo
« Reply #5 on: April 06, 2013, 03:51:12 AM »
I prefere to stick as close to Norma Specs as possible.It gets the job done.Maybe Kev can make a load and call it "The Original 10mm Load".170 at 1300fps.

Intercooler

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Re: Full power 10mm ammo
« Reply #6 on: April 06, 2013, 04:19:03 AM »
Not me I guess. I think it's great to have an unbending top dog giving us just that and all the others can back-fill with levels everyone wants. Double Tap is loaded close to Norma I would guess  :o

4949shooter

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Re: Full power 10mm ammo
« Reply #7 on: April 06, 2013, 04:58:56 AM »
God told man to design the 10mm to Norma levels.

When you mess with God's plan for the 10mm, guns can go Kaboom. Pushing the limit, combined with sloppy or diminishing quality control leads to bad things happening. Some of these manufacturers are deceased so I won't name them out of decency. And there have been some issues with .357 ammo loaded by other manufacturers, as has been discussed here in the past. Whether it is poor quality control, or the guy loading the ammo that day not getting a good night's sleep, being sick, arguing with his wife, or whatever, when we push beyond the limits the ammo was designed for there is a small margin for error.

Give me 200 grains at 1200, or 170 at 1300 to 1350. This IS considered full power 10mm ammo. Anything above that is NUCLEAR level, and must have guns designed for it (proper chamber and springs).

That's my take on it.

pacapcop

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Re: Full power 10mm ammo
« Reply #8 on: April 06, 2013, 05:11:30 AM »
I agree 4949.

Intercooler

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Re: Full power 10mm ammo
« Reply #9 on: April 06, 2013, 06:17:51 AM »
   And exactly why it is so great. You can go up and down the list by weight and get what you feel comfortable in your firearm and performance. Initially I thought maybe Kevin should have backed down to appease everyone but making the Delta-Lite load was the Olive Branch for that. Actually a simple call to him I'm sure he will load it how you want but for everything else their is Double Tap and Buffalo Bore  ;D

4949shooter

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Re: Full power 10mm ammo
« Reply #10 on: April 06, 2013, 04:35:20 PM »
I agree this is part of what makes the 10mm the greatest semi auto cartridge out there.

However, my point is considering the OP's original post in this thread, where he asks why everyone is afraid of FULL POWER 10mm. My response was geared as a partial answer to his question, in that many are not afraid of full power ten loads, they are skeptical of manufacturers who may be pushing the limit too much, thereby potentially creating an unsafe condition in some stock guns, or as I mentioned above due to variances in manufacture.

There is a big difference in being afraid of a full power load and being skeptical of a load that may be loaded to potentially unsafe levels.

You weren't around on Glocktalk when one member posted a KB with his Glock 29 and SW ammo. The owner of SW ended up backing off the 200 grain XTP load to 1195 FPS so they could safely be fired in Glock 29 pistols (a G29 specific load). If you are interested, I can try to find the thread for you when I have some time.

Let's face it....mistakes do happen.

The_Shadow

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Re: Full power 10mm ammo
« Reply #11 on: April 06, 2013, 05:04:28 PM »
Not sure what recoil spring system that was being used in the G-29 that had a case blow with the SwampFox ammo back then.

Many things were happening back then, Mike of Swamp Fox was pushing his load at 10.0 grains of LongShot that yielded 1325 fps from the G-20's.  He mentioned about having extra power recoil spring systems to compensate for the higher impulse ammo.  He also mentioned about Aftermarket barrels with better chamber support.  Then for those that had the 6" barrels, he needed to tame that load as well and it would be equal to the 1325 fps, because of the pressure.  Too many variables to keep straight with the amount of orders...

The main thing is people need to understand their guns and the ammo they select to use, then observe the fired casings to gather the data of how things are working with their setups.  If they see "SMILES" they need to adjust either the ammo, use a different barrel or change lockup timing.  Some guns may require more changes that others, because not all of them are alike.

The best understanding is chamber support or the lack of it!  The strength of the ammo in relation to its impulse as acted upon the recoil system in use is referred to as tuning the slide.  Different guns work differently that others and spring changes alone may not fix the situation.  Some of the aftermarket barrels are not the same as previous models, geometry can be different, chamber support differences and also the free bore area can all affect a given situation! ???

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Intercooler

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Re: Full power 10mm ammo
« Reply #12 on: April 06, 2013, 05:08:01 PM »
    Honestly only one (I think would fit in that category) if I would have to guess from people here. That would be Underwood which in a decent firearm gives zero issues. The other 99% can be ran in anything without issue from the ammo side of things. Upgrade your firearm IMO  ;D

gandog56

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Re: Full power 10mm ammo
« Reply #13 on: April 06, 2013, 06:28:24 PM »
I am a Glock guy and would rather have my plastic Glock blow up on me than an all steel anything.At least the plastic will disapated some of the blast where steel just speeds it up.I just do not see anybody producing ammo that when fired from a good gun of todays manafacture would explode it. Way too much liability on that front. Good way to close your business I guess.LOL

How about just buying a gun where you don't even worry about the possibility of it even failing? I have never heard a Dan Wesson or a Fusion Firearms going "kaboom". On the other hand, all the Glock "kaboom" stories all seem to have a common cause, shooting a lot of cast lead bullets from their polygonal rifled OEM barrels.
Some people think I'm paranoid because I have so many guns. With all my guns, what do I have to be paranoid about?

The_Shadow

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Re: Full power 10mm ammo
« Reply #14 on: April 06, 2013, 08:40:02 PM »
How about just buying a gun where you don't even worry about the possibility of it even failing? I have never heard a Dan Wesson or a Fusion Firearms going "kaboom". On the other hand, all the Glock "kaboom" stories all seem to have a common cause, shooting a lot of cast lead bullets from their polygonal rifled OEM barrels.

There are many people who actually shoot cast bullets only from their Glock factory barrels without issue, most that do are handloaders and understand that bullet size and lube quality make that possible safely.  Heck my G-30 cast bullets are all I shoot for target work.  I have blasted many cast bullets thru my G-29 factory barrel from time to time with various weights and styles.

Most of the Glock Kaboom's are actually case blow outs caused by early unlock, that increases the unsupported case with hot loads or from bullet set back issues that jack up the pressures again with hot loads.  Yes there are rare cases where the ammo is a blatant problem such as drastically overloaded condition.  Thinks that can cause that are double charge, wrong powder being used, powder bridging and even having multiple projectiles jammed in the case.

Other things that can cause catastrophic failure is a squib bullet or foreign object inside the barrel.
The "10mm" I'm Packin', Has The Bullets Wackin', Smakin' & The Slide is Rackin' & Jackin'!
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