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10mm Ammuntion => Factory 10mm ammo => Topic started by: SPDSR on December 20, 2017, 05:12:36 AM

Title: Doubletap Velocities & Quality
Post by: SPDSR on December 20, 2017, 05:12:36 AM
I know there have been many back and forth opinions on DoubleTap ammo over the years. What is the current consensus-dishonest velocity claims still? I like the profile of their 200gr Hardcast better than Buffalo Bores’s 220gr, and I’m hesitant about Underwood’s with their potentially threshold breaching pressures. Any somewhat recent data/experiences? I have a GLOCK 20 gen4.
Title: Re: Doubletap Velocities & Quality
Post by: The_Shadow on December 20, 2017, 06:51:19 AM
SPDSR, even with the discrepancies of velocity claims DT is still a good product.  Where the lower velocities change things is in longer distance shots adding more bullet drop.

Underwood has tamed some of his loads down as he has been using different powders in recent times...

If you would like to see what's what you can study whats posted here; https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ak5OC6bPsjO8dEh6eGZ3N3hpUU13SXM5cm9pZy16T0E#gid=0 (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ak5OC6bPsjO8dEh6eGZ3N3hpUU13SXM5cm9pZy16T0E#gid=0)
Title: Re: Doubletap Velocities & Quality
Post by: sqlbullet on December 20, 2017, 07:50:27 AM
This ^^

Nothing wrong with the quality.  People are upset that they don't get the velocity published in their own guns.  And often it is more deviation than can reasonably be explained.
Title: Re: Doubletap Velocities & Quality
Post by: Intercooler on December 20, 2017, 10:06:12 AM
Don't leave Reed's 200gr out of the mix. You can view the make-up in the 10mm pull-downs.
Title: Re: Doubletap Velocities & Quality
Post by: SPDSR on December 20, 2017, 10:42:12 AM
 I’m not familiar with Reeds. How are their velocity claims/hard cast quality?
Title: Re: Doubletap Velocities & Quality
Post by: Intercooler on December 20, 2017, 10:54:15 AM
Really good and they use #9. It's about the safest out there for powder loading.
Title: Re: Doubletap Velocities & Quality
Post by: Intercooler on December 20, 2017, 10:56:11 AM
http://10mm-firearms.com/factory-10mm-ammo-pull-downs/reeds-ammo-200gr-wfngc-hard-cast-provided-by-ic-dec-2017/
Title: Re: Doubletap Velocities & Quality
Post by: Intercooler on December 20, 2017, 10:58:03 AM
http://10mm-firearms.com/factory-10mm-ammo/reed's-ammunition-155gr-165gr-180gr-gold-dots-and-200gr-hardcast/
Title: Re: Doubletap Velocities & Quality
Post by: SPDSR on December 20, 2017, 12:35:31 PM
Those do look nice. Just looked them up and they are priced great.
Title: Re: Doubletap Velocities & Quality
Post by: Intercooler on December 20, 2017, 12:49:05 PM
The batch I got was a lower velocity set. Looking for the better version to arrive soon.
Title: Re: Doubletap Velocities & Quality
Post by: Rojo27 on December 20, 2017, 08:08:05 PM
Just to add my .02 on this topic. 

I think the Double Tap 200gr Beartooth (excellent meplat) is a fine choice for a woods with critters armed with teeth, claws & big bones....  I don't believe it's ripping out of the muzzle at 1300fps of my Glock as DT claims but even at more modest speeds, it'll penitrate DEEP which is what I'd want if facing something capable of turning the tables and realigning the food chain. 
Razor Dobbs used it to drop a big Wildabeest at 100yds last year and DT claims it's been used to harvest Cape Buffalo. 
I took my Sons camping in Montana & Wyoming last summer and Glock (never out of reach) was stoked with them. 
Title: Re: Doubletap Velocities & Quality
Post by: SPDSR on December 20, 2017, 08:39:36 PM
Yea I saw the Razor Dobbs video, pretty cool stuff. I suspect that for Razor, a friend of McNett’s, the loads are not necessarily the same stuff we would get ordering online. But who knows. I did check out that really awesome spreadsheet linked above with all the 10mm ammo data. The 155 DT Barnes load (which Razor Dobbs always boasts about) came in over DT’s claimed velocity? That’s the first I have heard of DT exceeding their claim. I wonder how recent that was.
Title: Re: Doubletap Velocities & Quality
Post by: SPDSR on December 24, 2017, 01:14:15 PM
Actually, reading through all the Doubletap loads listed on that spreadsheet, most of them exceeded advertised velocities? Whose results are those?
Title: Re: Doubletap Velocities & Quality
Post by: sqlbullet on December 24, 2017, 04:14:45 PM
It's really just the 180 and 200 grain where they fall short of advertised velocity.  They do exceed on all the other stuff.
Title: Re: Doubletap Velocities & Quality
Post by: Spudmeister on December 25, 2017, 09:27:27 AM
I will take a stab at it.  The pity is some guys react to the difference between Double Tap's advertised vs real velocities like it was a capital crime.  I have shot and chrono'd Double Tap ammo in 9mm, 45 acp, 10 mm, 338 WM and probably a few others I am forgetting.  In the vast majority of cases the advertised velocity has been a fairy tale.  I have shot a fair amount of Underwood and Buffalo Bore ammo and it is always close to the advertised velocity. 

I look at it this way.  If you want red hot as fast as it can be pushed ammo you can usually find that with the Underwood or Buffalo Bore ammo.  It is of very high quality.  But if you want ammo that is a small but sure step down in velocity/pressure and is very high quality, you'll find Double Tap ammo to your liking. 
Title: Re: Doubletap Velocities & Quality
Post by: Spudmeister on December 25, 2017, 10:38:35 AM
Here are some velocities I've gotten over the last year

10mm Double Tap 200gr WFN GC factory ammo
G20 Gen 3 OEM  1,124 fps
G20 Gen 3 5.3" Storm Lake barrel 1,181 fps

10mm My reload with 200gr WFN GC bullet
G20 Gen 3 OEM 8.6gr Longshot powder  1,165 fps
G20 Gen 3 5.3" Storm Lake barrel 8.6gr Longshot  1,247 fps
This 8.6gr of Longshot load is my favorite hunting load for the G20 & G40

10mm My reload with 200gr WFN GC bullet
G20 Gen 3 OEM 7.5gr Power Pistol  1,094 fps
G20 Gen 3 5.3" Storm Lake barrel 7.5gr Power Pistol  1,155 fps
This 7.5gr of Power Pistol is easily my favorite all around field & knock around load.  Not bad in a G29 either.

As you can see from this and my above post, the DT load fits right in there.  Not too much and not too little.  My Glock's love the 200gr WFN bullet no matter if it is from Montana bullets, Beartooth or DT.  Not much difference between the gas check variant and the plan based ones.  Nothing here is nuclear.  That is a different conversation.  Just accurate, powerful and fairly easy to shoot.  Hope this helps.
Title: Re: Doubletap Velocities & Quality
Post by: SPDSR on January 01, 2018, 04:40:26 PM
Thanks everyone. So what is the general consensus on Underwood/Buffalo Bore versions with 100% stock Glocks? They aren’t gas checked like DT’s.
Title: Re: Doubletap Velocities & Quality
Post by: Rojo27 on January 01, 2018, 08:41:42 PM
Thanks everyone. So what is the general consensus on Underwood/Buffalo Bore versions with 100% stock Glocks? They aren’t gas checked like DT’s.

I've personally only used the 10mm 200gr WFNGC in my Glock...  No issue (feeding or otherwise).

Here are three of the best illustrations of how the Glock does with WFN hard cast ammo:
 
Hickok 45 published some testing he did with DT 230gr 10mm WFN out of his Glock that continually failed to stabilize & keyholed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-m0satEkGjw

Here is a later Hickok 45 video showing some more DT 230gr still tumbling as well as DT 200gr 10mm out of his Glock that worked great.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dP96z_MCJHA

He also published some shooting with Underwood/Buffalo Bore 10mm 220gr ammunition out of his Glock20.  Other than one hang up, it worked well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCvJe6QEWNQ

Title: Re: Doubletap Velocities & Quality
Post by: SPDSR on January 12, 2018, 01:41:15 PM
I am just a little skeptical of doubletap because of the many opinions regarding drastic velocity discrepancies. It’s not even the actual velocities that really bug me, just the concept that if they are fudging those, what else is fudged? I found this chart

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Ep9Oj0HMbljjuKSg549itlcjKojFEu6cgwajT7XcuNw/htmlview

and the DT loads are listed as hundreds of FPS slower than advertised, while UW’s were frequently faster, to the nuclear point (not ideal either). I also noticed how great of a difference there was from (for example) DT’s 155 Barnes load in this table to the one linked on this site. It’s advertised at 1400fps from s G20. The one charts lists it as hitting an avg of 1102fps from a G20, 300 FPS below advertised, while one on here has 1448fps from a similar sized barrel, 50 FPS over advertised. So a 350fps difference between the two.

Does DT fluctuate - some years they ard hundreds of fps low, some years they meet advertised? I’m not sure what to think.

I looked at BB’s 200 FMJFN since they only have hard cast in 220 grain, and according to the manufacturer of that bullet it only has a BHN of 15. I asked BB what FMJ bullet was used, as many fmj’s are not built tough for bone or hard barriers like auto glass (the things BB Describes their fmjfn for) , and Tim would not respond to that question (asked about 5 times over a year). He’d answer other things though. Why are these companies so weird! Just tell us the truth!
Title: Re: Doubletap Velocities & Quality
Post by: Intercooler on January 13, 2018, 02:50:54 AM
Did you check out the master sheets stickied above?

It seems Doubletap was up, went down and then recovered some. Some of their recent stuff I tested was back up again. When they compete against Underwood and Buffalo Bore for the dollar (both do pretty much rating), where they charge more $$$ in most cases... they would be out of business now if they didn't right the ship! Finally his pricing is more in line with the competition too when he offers 20% off.
Title: Re: Doubletap Velocities & Quality
Post by: 4949shooter on January 13, 2018, 09:01:53 AM
Doubletap is getting better. I am sure they are responding to their competitors. Their 180 grain fmj match load isn't quite Underwood but it is up there in power, perhaps more like the Sig load, if not a bit better.
Title: Re: Doubletap Velocities & Quality
Post by: DixieLab on January 15, 2018, 12:25:04 PM
Check Mike's Facebook page. Right now 35% off and free shipping.

https://m.facebook.com/profile.php?id=129018327176194&ref=content_filter

I would order some,but I just bought some on sale around Christmas time.

I'll agree that his advertised velocities are wishful thinking,but it is quality ammo. I'm confident that the 200grn WFNGC, that I clocked at 1,176fps, will let the air out of anything that breathes in my neck of the woods.

I just received some 180grn Bonded Defense (Gold Dot?) and will do some chrono when it warms up a little.