Author Topic: Carry load revisited  (Read 257 times)

Overkill338

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Carry load revisited
« on: October 26, 2017, 04:27:48 AM »
I'm thinking about swapping the ammo in the gun to a less penetrating bullet. Something in the 12" range in jello tests. Maybe use the Underwood 135 Nosler for my 10+1 and keep the 200 XTPs in my backup mags. I was laying in bed discussing it with my wife, and I got to thinking how many folks are actually 16"+ thick. It's just hard to imagine a 135 grain bullet, leaving a 29 at 1600 fps, not being able to reach vitals.

Also the 135 would penetrate a tad better from a 29 due to a little less velocity.

The other rounds I've considered are. :Doubletap 125 Tac-xp, UW 150 Nosler, or 155 GD or XTP. Maybe the 155 XTP from Defender Ammunition.

Any thoughts on this fellas?
« Last Edit: October 26, 2017, 05:00:12 AM by Overkill338 »
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Ridgerunner665

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Re: Carry load revisited
« Reply #1 on: October 26, 2017, 05:51:52 AM »
150-155 grain 10mm bullets have the ideal sectional density for social work.

That is based on the 125 grain 357 Mag with all the street cred.

sqlbullet

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Re: Carry load revisited
« Reply #2 on: October 26, 2017, 06:58:27 AM »
My first thought is...

Don't assume the fight will be against a target standing and facing you.

What if they guy is laying down on the other side of your bed with his feet to you, firing at you on the floor on the other side of the bed?  Now your bullets have to enter through leg and pelvis to reach his vitals.

What if he is firing at you through the windshield of your car and you have to return fire through the same?

That said, a 135 grain JHP is in my "nightstand" gun.

Rick R

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Re: Carry load revisited
« Reply #3 on: October 26, 2017, 08:17:03 AM »
The agency I worked for had two video shooting training systems over the years. One of the things we found on replay was that a person in an aggressive stance usually has his arms to the front holding a weapon.  A high percentage of shots hit hands/arms/weapon on opponent and have to traverse the forearm to reach the torso before getting an opportunity to reach vitals.

Handguns need all the help they can get.

I also found hard knuckle gloves and forearm shields to be a good thing when training with sim rounds.
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The_Shadow

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Re: Carry load revisited
« Reply #4 on: October 26, 2017, 08:37:21 AM »
I have recovered a Hornady 200 grain XTP's from a 180 lb deer where the only bones struck were ribs, both lungs and heart with the bullet under the hide on the far side.  Bullet expanded and even shed some pieces.

Now lets go with domestic perpetrators, today they could be high on drugs, even be wearing some sort of armor and you need to stop an attack.  I'd opt for the heavier 155. 165, 180 & 200 grain weights.  Central Nervous System, CNS hits may even be necessary to stop the attacker or attackers.   In the case of ocular cavity hits you had better be on your best proficiency under stress to make those shots.

The reason for HP is so that bullet will hopefully expand and dump all of its energy into the body like being hit with a baseball bat or sledge hammer.  The bullets aren't really designed to immediately kill but rather slow down or incapacitate.  Blood loss can take quite some time for things to succumb to Hematogenic Shock resulting from insufficient blood volume for the maintenance of adequate cardiac output, blood pressure, and tissue perfusion. Without modification the term refers to absolute hypovolemic shock caused by acute hemorrhage or excessive fluid loss.

Central Nervous System, the disruption is usually items like brain, brain stem and spinal cord and some major large nerves, this results in loss of function to the affected areas causing paralysis, the loss of the ability to move (and sometimes to feel anything) in part or most of the body, typically as a result of illness, poison, or injury.

Some people think that the Civil Defense 60 gr bullets at hyper velocity are a better choice, but I see those as making shallow disruption with fragments and the unexpanded core may or may not carry enough energy and not as large as an expanded type projectile.

The RIP rounds sort of the same thing but with the trocars separating to maybe hit other vessels shallow, with the small unexpanded core going deeper.

If you think about why the 45ACP is so often used, it is a big heavy slower bullet...then there was the expression "flying ashtray" which refereed to a huge expanding HP dumping all of it energy into the intended target.  The larger expansion gives even more chance to disruption or cut vital organs, vessels, nerves, etc.

So this is where I pose the question to the answer...What do you feel comfortable with, when it comes down to making your decision?
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tommac919

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Re: Carry load revisited
« Reply #5 on: October 26, 2017, 08:43:32 AM »
What do you feel comfortable with, when it comes down to making your decision?

I settle on two weights 90%+ of the time ... 180 or 200.   I like a mid level powered round to allow an accurate 2nd shot ( if your shooting once, then IMO shoot twice )

Overkill338

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Re: Carry load revisited
« Reply #6 on: October 26, 2017, 09:26:51 AM »
Good points. That's why I posted it, I got carried away in a 2D way of thinking.
The 10mm Auto, created by Zeus, replaced Thor's hammer, perfected by Jeff Cooper, and endorsed by Larry Vickers AND the Nuge! It exudes awesome! :D