Author Topic: Swamp Fox ammo Pull-Downs 135gr, 175gr, 180gr & 200gr Others still Needed!  (Read 9669 times)

The_Shadow

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Swamp Fox ammo Pull-Downs Needed!
Within this post are the documentations of several of the Swamp Fox  Ammo as loaded by Michael Willard prior to his passing...Still need other bullet weights pulled and loads verified: 155's, 165's or even other caliber if you have any.

135gr @ 1700 fps (Nosler or Sierra) FULLY SUPPORTED CHAMBER BARREL ONLY 14.6 grains LongShot measured by Shadow
155gr @ 1525 fps (XTP)(maybe Winchester AutoComp)
165gr @ 1475 fps (?)
175gr @ 1360 fps (Win Silvertip) 10.2 grains LongShot Measured by Shadow
180gr @ 1325 fps (Rem GSHP) 10.0 grains LongShot Measured by Shadow
180gr @ 1340 fps (Speer Gold Dot) 10.6 grains LongShot Measured by Shadow (this maybe the 1400 fps loading)
180gr @ 1400 fps (XTP)
200gr @ 1240 fps (XTP & FMJ)  8.8 & 9.0 grains LongShot measured by Shadow (may be the Delta Elite loads @ 1200fps)
200gr @ 1240 fps (XTP & FMJ)  9.4 grains LongShot measured by Shadow
200gr @ 1325 fps (XTP & FMJ)  FULLY SUPPORTED CHAMBER BARREL ONLY 9.7-9.9 grains LongShot measured by NickE10mm
200gr @ 1325 fps (XTP)  FULLY SUPPORTED CHAMBER BARREL ONLY 10.2 grains LongShot measured by Shadow
« Last Edit: May 15, 2016, 06:18:28 AM by The_Shadow »
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REDLINE

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Re: Swamp Fox ammo Pull-Downs Needed!
« Reply #1 on: July 07, 2013, 04:48:41 PM »
The results from those would be nice to get a look at.  Especially from the standpoint that it seemed Swampfox preferred Longshot over the 800-X Underwood is/was using.
Gun Control?  Oh yes, the theory that becoming a victim is somehow morally superior to defending yourself & your family.  Makes perfect sense.

pacapcop

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Re: Swamp Fox ammo Pull-Downs Needed!
« Reply #2 on: July 07, 2013, 07:40:38 PM »
I might have a couple s/f 175 silver tips laying around,ill have to look.

pacapcop

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Re: Swamp Fox ammo Pull-Downs Needed!
« Reply #3 on: July 13, 2013, 08:36:14 AM »
I did find some S/F 180 Golden Sabers 180's if interested. Rated at 1325.

The_Shadow

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Re: Swamp Fox ammo Pull-Downs Needed!
« Reply #4 on: July 13, 2013, 08:48:46 AM »
pacapcop, Do you have the capabilities to measure overall length, pull them and document what's inside?
Measure the powder charge?  Look at the powder and know if it is LongShot or something different?
Take pictures?
Or you could send me one to pull apart... ;D
The "10mm" I'm Packin', Has The Bullets Wackin', Smakin' & The Slide is Rackin' & Jackin'!
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pacapcop

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Re: Swamp Fox ammo Pull-Downs Needed!
« Reply #5 on: July 13, 2013, 10:54:35 AM »
Ill send it to you, no problem. Send me your address etc.

The_Shadow

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Re: Swamp Fox ammo Pull-Downs Needed!
« Reply #6 on: July 13, 2013, 11:23:36 AM »
pacapcop, Check your PM box... ;)
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pacapcop

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Re: Swamp Fox ammo Pull-Downs Needed!
« Reply #7 on: July 13, 2013, 06:36:11 PM »
Done.

The_Shadow

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Re: Swamp Fox ammo Pull-Downs Needed!
« Reply #8 on: July 13, 2013, 06:52:25 PM »
 8)! Looking forward to gather the info!  8)
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RMM

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Re: Swamp Fox ammo Pull-Downs Needed!
« Reply #9 on: July 15, 2013, 10:21:00 AM »
I find the Swampfox ammo to be interesting... he was willing to load hotter than anyone else on the planet (commercially, at least).  I highly highly doubt that any of his loads were even close to 37,500 PSI even though he says some of them were.  If you look at Hodgdon's data, for example, a 200 gr. Hornady FMJ loaded to 1.260" over 8.2 gr. Longshot produced 35,000 PSI!  There is no way in this world that 9.4 under a 200 gr. XTP is under even 40,000 PSI, I have my doubts that even 9.0 gr would be under 40,000 PSI.  Obviously when everything is right (well supported chamber, recoil spring, etc.) the guns and brass could handle being well over 37,500 PSI, but this type of load definitely is not for the faint of heart; one bullet setback, one weak piece of brass, one round that has been sitting in the sun, etc. can quickly send you over the edge.  We have seen the results of this from the numerous guns blown up by this ammo when, and even a few smaller mishaps from Underwood (who I also believe to be over 37,500 PSI in most instances but not by as large a margin as Swampfox). 

This isn't to say that you shouldn't attempt such things (most of us like to push the limits and see what is possible), but I hope that those who do understand what they're doing and understand the possible consequences. 

Longshot is much nicer to work with than 800x for the simple fact that it actually meters (very well in my measure) whereas as many here know 800x is a one-at-a-time affair.
Richard - G20SF

The_Shadow

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Re: Swamp Fox ammo Pull-Downs Needed!
« Reply #10 on: July 15, 2013, 11:13:58 AM »
LongShot is listed as being slower than IMR800X, AA#7 and Blue Dot, but it is a very energetic powder nonetheless.

This is why documenting the various loadings which were sold will be great to preserve the data and continue to lend respect to Mike Willard of SwampFox Ammo.  :D
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The_Shadow

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Re: Swamp Fox ammo Pull-Downs Needed!
« Reply #11 on: July 19, 2013, 02:58:57 PM »
Cartridge is from Ammo Manufacture: Swamp Fox 180gr  Remington GS BJHP  Provided by pacapcop
Ballistics Information: 10mm Auto
Muzzle Velocity: 1325 fps
Muzzle Energy: 701 ft. lbs
Brass Make/Headstamp: Star Line - Brass
Bullet Make/Weight/Construction/Info; Length 0.6250"/Dia. 0.4005": 180gr. Rem GS BJHP 
HP depth 0.2400" / inside Dia. 0.1125" / mouth Dia. 0. 2350"
Actual weight 179.6 grains   Bore riding & Crimp squeezed bullet to 0.3965"
C.O.A.L.: 1.2545" & 1.2555"
Primer: Nickel color
Case: Diameter 0.4220" Crimp Diameter 0.4210" (light) Length 0.9890"
Powder Description/Positive ID/Type/Charge LongShot Weight: 10.0 & 10.2 grains









« Last Edit: July 19, 2013, 03:00:31 PM by The_Shadow »
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Intercooler

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Re: Swamp Fox ammo Pull-Downs Needed!
« Reply #12 on: July 19, 2013, 04:19:17 PM »
pacapcop sent me some different ones way back when and I tested them:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ak5OC6bPsjO8dEh6eGZ3N3hpUU13SXM5cm9pZy16T0E#gid=1

These weren't tested though. I will add them to the sheet and if you get Chrony numbers add them too.

What I want to get my hands on is the Elite Ammo 165's!

The_Shadow

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Re: Swamp Fox ammo Pull-Downs Needed!
« Reply #13 on: July 19, 2013, 05:55:14 PM »
Yes it would be great to study and document any and all ammo past and present.  Elite Ammo I thought was getting re-established after the 5.7x28 fiasco but the supplies are proving to be the issue at hand.

I would still like to see some other SwampFox Ammo like the 135's, 155's, 165's, 175's and if he made any 155 or 175 SilverTip Ammo...Seeing how he used mostly LongShot, he did say he used Winchester Autocomp 155gr's...

Maybe some members will spare a round or two if they have any of the ammo left in their inventory or if they have the means do the pull down themselves to document what they find.  They could follow the same format I use and post that would be great for all of us to learn from.  Then others or myself can work up loads for testing to compare notes.  ;D
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Re: Swamp Fox ammo Pull-Downs Needed!
« Reply #14 on: July 20, 2013, 12:18:55 PM »
I find the Swampfox ammo to be interesting... he was willing to load hotter than anyone else on the planet (commercially, at least).  I highly highly doubt that any of his loads were even close to 37,500 PSI even though he says some of them were.  If you look at Hodgdon's data, for example, a 200 gr. Hornady FMJ loaded to 1.260" over 8.2 gr. Longshot produced 35,000 PSI!  There is no way in this world that 9.4 under a 200 gr. XTP is under even 40,000 PSI, I have my doubts that even 9.0 gr would be under 40,000 PSI.  Obviously when everything is right (well supported chamber, recoil spring, etc.) the guns and brass could handle being well over 37,500 PSI, but this type of load definitely is not for the faint of heart; one bullet setback, one weak piece of brass, one round that has been sitting in the sun, etc. can quickly send you over the edge.  We have seen the results of this from the numerous guns blown up by this ammo when, and even a few smaller mishaps from Underwood (who I also believe to be over 37,500 PSI in most instances but not by as large a margin as Swampfox). 

This isn't to say that you shouldn't attempt such things (most of us like to push the limits and see what is possible), but I hope that those who do understand what they're doing and understand the possible consequences. 

Longshot is much nicer to work with than 800x for the simple fact that it actually meters (very well in my measure) whereas as many here know 800x is a one-at-a-time affair.

You are assuming the Hodgdon claimed 35,000 PSI is accurate.  Maybe it is, I don't know.  I wouldn't be surprised if that is an inflated number.  I remember hearing something in the past from somewhere that some manufacturers are known to fudge the numbers toward safety.

Who knows what variance there may be in PSI readings between different variances in testing.  Hard to say as we'll never know between different published data by different manufacturers.

The PSI numbers we generally go by are invented by and published by SAAMI, and we don't know exactly how or why they chose the figure or range of figures they did.  That said, I feel they are an excellent general guideline to go by.  But if someone properly works up a max load that goes beyond SAAMI figures that works fine in their platform, I have no issue with that either.

What sucks is that pressure testing equipment isn't as common as chronographs in the world of handloading, obviously because of cost, but would be awesome if it was as I believe then it would open up a whole new area of learning for all of us.
Gun Control?  Oh yes, the theory that becoming a victim is somehow morally superior to defending yourself & your family.  Makes perfect sense.