Author Topic: The New King  (Read 1641 times)

GoldBead

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The New King
« on: January 25, 2018, 07:36:40 PM »
Sometimes engineers stick to one theory or one mechanism simply because it works, sort of. They beef up parts here and there to fix breakages or weak points and generally ignore those who call for a redesign.

Case in point, the 10mm AUTO. Perhaps I should say, the pistols designed to shoot 10mm AUTO

The design of the gun and the slotted barrel lug were originally designed for the 45 ACP (See the Book "The Heir Apparent" ) until Jeff Cooper insisted on the 10mm cartridge. The cartridge was designed by Dornas and Dixon but accidentally "hot-rodded" twice, the original specs looking a lot like the 40 S&W than the 10mm Norma loading.

When the weapon (The Bren Ten) finally made it out the door, the die was cast. Colt decided it could make a 10mm as well and the rest was history. Most guns use the weak swing link of the 1911 to lower the barrel, thus dwell time (the time the barrel is locked together) is narrow and dependent on the mass of the slide to adjust for different loads. The 10mm Bren Ten was first designed as a 45 and then s t r e t c h e d to fit, even to the point of having both 45 ACP and 10mm  share the same magazines.

This error has been compounded (yes even in the EAA Witness) for every design of 10mm gun. Guns break or have a short life. Some gun makers will not make a government sized 10mm anymore due to functionality and parts life concerns, insisting on the 6 inch hogleg. Some will not make Commander sized 10mm's for the same reason. Some, like EAA, simply replace broken slides, broken barrels, broken slide pins
battered frames because it is easier than a redesign. Even the Glock 20, (Cursed be upon its name) shows this temperament with the notorious "Glock Smiles" and various Kaboom stories. The large frame Glock was 45 first and them S t r e t c h e d to make it work. The result was a good .45 gun and an OK 10mm

All recommend a diet of salad shooting, latte sipping loads rather than the meat eaters Underwood and others put out.

All Except the New King
« Last Edit: January 25, 2018, 07:48:00 PM by GoldBead »
"Hokey Religions and Ancient Weapons are no match for a good Blaster by your side, Kid."

NOI

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Re: The New King
« Reply #1 on: January 25, 2018, 07:57:14 PM »
Did I miss what “the new king”...is?

sstewart

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Re: The New King
« Reply #2 on: January 25, 2018, 08:03:00 PM »
And now for the rest of the story ....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Canoe

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Re: The New King
« Reply #3 on: January 25, 2018, 08:13:52 PM »
Given the ever increasing popularity and number of new 10mm offerings (from 1911s, to the P220, to the Grand Power, and more Tanfoglios), there is more and more info on what is, and how well things are, holding up.  Also to correct, while a few batches of EAAs didn't fair so well, other higher end Tanfoglios have been around for awhile and seem be be holding up fine.

GoldBead

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Re: The New King Part II
« Reply #4 on: January 25, 2018, 08:19:23 PM »
Long Live the King!!

The Coonan pistol is a fresh redesign of their .357 magnum using a Colt type frame and many compatible parts.

However, it is a balls to the wall MONSTER when it comes to lock up and dwell time, because the Coonan locking system was originally designed for the .357 Magnum. They designed their new weapon, all ready with a cult following, to take the 10mm. In effect they  :o Downloaded  :o their weapon to accommodate the 10mm! The factory literature challenges you to not just use pussycat loads and "watch your recoil springs" but to use full power loads as much as you want.  The company brags that shooting the Coonan is a mind changing experience and revels in the basketball sized fireballs its weapons throw. 

Yes, I have ordered one as my carry weapon. Full Range report and disassembly and test review as soon as I can get my hands on her.

« Last Edit: January 25, 2018, 08:28:16 PM by GoldBead »
"Hokey Religions and Ancient Weapons are no match for a good Blaster by your side, Kid."

Intercooler

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Re: The New King
« Reply #5 on: January 26, 2018, 02:19:49 AM »
Oh no. Coonan is the King? The NutNFancy video showed it's true colors in short order. They were having a real hard time with it running right!

NOI

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Re: The New King Part II
« Reply #6 on: January 26, 2018, 05:14:27 AM »
Long Live the King!!

The Coonan pistol is a fresh redesign of their .357 magnum using a Colt type frame and many compatible parts.

However, it is a balls to the wall MONSTER when it comes to lock up and dwell time, because the Coonan locking system was originally designed for the .357 Magnum. They designed their new weapon, all ready with a cult following, to take the 10mm. In effect they  :o Downloaded  :o their weapon to accommodate the 10mm! The factory literature challenges you to not just use pussycat loads and "watch your recoil springs" but to use full power loads as much as you want.  The company brags that shooting the Coonan is a mind changing experience and revels in the basketball sized fireballs its weapons throw. 

Yes, I have ordered one as my carry weapon. Full Range report and disassembly and test review as soon as I can get my hands on her.

Well this should be interesting. Are you having a carry holster custome made? If so where the heck did you find the molds? What position are you planning on carrying? What are the full loads you’re planning on carrying?

You don’t have to wait until it arrives to start the review, set the table.

Intercooler

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Re: The New King
« Reply #7 on: January 26, 2018, 01:04:06 PM »
 I will just leave this here


sqlbullet

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Re: The New King
« Reply #8 on: January 26, 2018, 08:47:12 PM »
Glock 20 came before and 21 and the gun was originally designed for 10mm.  Smiles are the result of loose tolerance for reliability and the general European lack of concern about reloadable brass.  You should see what full power 308 looks like out of my CETME.

I and several others here will stand up our Witness Elite guns against about any full house 10mm round you want, and as many as you want.  They just run.

And I gotta say, my Para P16-40/10mm has seen at least 5K rounds and is running strong.  My Delta Elite, sold long ago also ate a good many rounds with no ill effect.  And my Ruger SR1911 is through nearly 1000 rounds and looks brand new still.

I personally reject the premise that any of these guns won't handle 10mm Auto just fine.  Such opinions are merely FUD and scare off potential adopters.  Buy a quality firearm and feed it in spec ammo and it will last longer than most of us will.

My 2¢.

blaster

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Re: The New King
« Reply #9 on: January 27, 2018, 04:43:27 AM »
during the '80s one of the U.S. Customs Agents that often boarded my boat carried a Coonan ,357. I now wonder how reliable his was. :o I would imagine that it functioned properly or he wouldn't carry it in the line of duty but you never know.

Intercooler

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Re: The New King
« Reply #10 on: January 27, 2018, 05:16:32 AM »
  The 10mm looks to be like a standard 1911 except for the barrel design. I saw a video of the 10mm running fine and that makes sense. I would rather have a full length guide rod and I don't know what you gain spending $1500 on this one versus a $700 Ruger 1911.

10mm4ever

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Re: The New King
« Reply #11 on: January 27, 2018, 06:33:52 AM »
Coonan has experienced frames cracking also, hot cartridges are going to prematurely wear & break guns.

Canoe

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Re: The New King
« Reply #12 on: January 27, 2018, 07:40:43 AM »
Smart that Coonan started to make the 10mm.  A lot of folks who picked up the 357 model wanted it to feel like a 1911, which of course it doesn't, and couldn't warm up to it.  I had the 357 version.  The grip is certainly longer but not uncomfortably so.  Mine was totally reliable and very accurate.  There are many more positive reviews than negative i think.  If the 10mm version functions as well (frankly should work better) Coonan will have another winner.

Whether you think it is King or not is subjective, but just good to see another 10mm platform.  Maybe they will make a compact version which is bound to be very popular and fill that niche so many are looking for.

4949shooter

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Re: The New King
« Reply #13 on: January 27, 2018, 07:52:27 AM »
There is an aftermarket barrel in that Glock.

Usually there are bad reloads / loads or alterations to the gun when this happens.

The_Shadow

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Re: The New King
« Reply #14 on: January 27, 2018, 09:07:36 AM »
Well as with any firearms, no two are the same...some are modified by the end users.  The main thing is that we as 10mm enthusiast need to fully understand that the 10mm is a very potent round as compared to the lower power 45ACP.
(In the case of the .45 ACP, the new standard cartridge pressure is 21,000 psi (140 MPa) and the SAAMI .45 ACP +P standard is 23,000 psi (160 MPa).

Seeing that the 10mm has a SAAMI pressure of 37,500 psi with even higher proof pressures, we do see the companies like UW, BB, DT, SF, etc. pushing the limits of the brass in some of their loadings.  The way that some firearms handle these loads has shown that they are on the upper end of the performance levels and pressure values...  UW swears their ammo are inside the SAAMI pressure value.

Yet we have seen many bulged and/or smiled cases and even popped primers.  Also some firearms have been K-Boomed with ammo the end user purchased.

My best advice is for people to start their adventure off using Big name Ammo makers ammo such as Remington, Federal, Colt, etc.
That will give the firearm a chance to show how it is working... 

Many of us are experienced handloaders, and can put together our own stuff studying the results as it relates to our own firearm setups.

Detective Harry Callahan said it best;  "A man's got to know his limitations!"
The "10mm" I'm Packin', Has The Bullets Wackin', Smakin' & The Slide is Rackin' & Jackin'!
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